MichalDrobot

Technology Fellow @InfinityWard | Personal stuff, private opinions. Studio Head @InfinityWardPL

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@maxliani This brings back some memories :
https://t.co/w69iTgqLPP

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@SebAaltonen @jamonholmgren That’s what we do too. Fixed point position representation and zero ws origin for shaders. Been like that for amist a decade and still suffices

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@terekhov_de Just reverse face cull and rasterize mesh interior when you detect camera is inside the shape. That’s a trivial check on GPU and more expensive on cpu as you need to run it against all triangles but only for lights that intersect camera origin with their bbox

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@terekhov_de - proxy shapes have baked in Max penumbra into their size. Because it’s a mesh and penumbra is dependent on distance from source this doesn’t bloat the proxy too much
- we use MSAA instead of conservative. If that is not enough (due to hw) we would move vertex position in VS

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@FilmicWorlds Still based on https://t.co/ws3DuN8tvV
Just added more things over the years (ie every single pass is now in MSAA alike format, all passes have pixel binning, depth and normal used selectively for upsampling etc)

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@FilmicWorlds With the caveat we do 4xmsaa - 8xMsaa generates too many sub pixel quads and not everything uses quad-less rendering

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@FilmicWorlds That’s how COD resolves upsample image in case all sub samples are available via SW VRS - with caveat we also output geometric depth / normal at full MSAA rate and use that to guide reconstruction.

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@KostasAAA And where is the second part where you forced the compile to coalesce those reads while retaining low VGPR count? ^^

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes Yeah not disagreeing. Specific problem specific solution. I was just pointing out hardships with portable MSAA solution (MSAA quirks aside. Gotta tell new people about sv_coverage ;> )

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes Then you need invest heavily into visbuffer for “simple draws” and pay setup price to compensate those deficiencies. involved pipeline that is not portable
I can totally see your plan working for specific art styles or more retro gaming. There is a huge Indy market for this

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes That’s pretty much exactly the mindset and what ended up shipping in Killzone Shadow Fall (4xMSAA -> 2x scaling + TAA) and in FarCry4 8xMSAA FMask only + analytical resolve + TAA
Doing sub samples in FC4 was challenging due to all that AT foliage.

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes If low end hw is decent with MSAA AND you can control triangle density effectively to combat quad occupancy loss (we can’t) - that’s the best there is imo.
FWIW that’s why we use stencil even for geo edges for MSAA - because we get too many interior edges that don’t do anything

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes But sure I agree that 8x is the way to go for 4K. Our challenge is that we still have gen8 with 1k target and at those resolutions 8x scales really sub linear due to quad occupancy

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes 1) it’s 4xMSAA but we DRS only on X axis which is matching your case I believe. Similar how it was done it Killzone Shadowfall.
8xMSAA we could explore XY scaling
2) depends. On PC it’s flat /w DCC. On gen8 it’s fmask packed. Gen9 is FMask with DCC plane0/1

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@adamjmiles @NOTimothyLottes Maybe 1000hz is a bit unnecessary - but looking at those numbers it’s 25%-100% of your 120hz title budget gone. Aside from grams gen not being great for competitive shooters, TAA needs to be really fast there

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@NOTimothyLottes Fully agree. Pains me to see TFLOPs going to waste for arguably minuscule quality “improvements” if we can even call laggy hallucinated images this way. Also i have a feeling that the industry is taking a step back in terms of engineering and research - dumping all into big data

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@dark1x @NOTimothyLottes Sure that is true, but that area is fairly limited unless you just use processing power to compensate for deficiencies elsewhere. I am just not a fan of “let’s PT everything” and there are some good lessons learnt in offline rendering where baking and approximating is doing great

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@dark1x @NOTimothyLottes If there is no benefit to the player or to gameplay, then there is no reason to waste 100x more processing power than baking. Better use it elsewhere.

[MichalDrobot @MichalDrobot]

@_mamoniem @4rknova @wojtsterna Considering it barely saves anything on modern GPUs I would strongly advise against it in anything that requires precision (which probably is important here). Correlating denominators is a great way to unpredictable results and will eat into ULP precision super fast.