I think we’re having semantic problems, and maybe I just think it matters because the gospel is “for the Jew first, and then the gentile.” So I’m reluctant to condemn the people of the nation over its origin story or current leaders/purpose(SoS), whether they hate Jesus or not, but you’re not wrong. I’ll leave you alone for now, good talk 👋
@mandyarthur@ImBreckWorsham Again I agree with you. But God used King Cyrus, a non Jew non Christian who had political reasons for allowing the Jews to return to Israel, I’m sure.
My point is just it doesn’t matter how it happened if it happened. And it happened.
It’s repentance at christs return but that’s the point, they don’t believe prior, just like how they don’t right now.
I’ll go back and look over things and read more carefully, maybe I’m missing something, but whether or not they’re real Israel by messiah or not(they’re not), God has always used the Jews bloodline to make examples out of them in order to show himself. If that pattern has ended then fine, but if it’s still in effect then that’s a biblical Israel(by prophetic mention) and the people living there are generational Jews for the same reasons. Covenant people anymore or not.
I don’t disagree with a thing that you said except for what may be a bit of a timing issue. When is the new heart and spirit given exactly?
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” - Matthew 23:37-39
To me this passage portrays there’s a change at some point, not tied together.
Theres also the war of Gog and Magog where God shows out, says many people after that event come to believe. But this requires Israel to exist and for the Jews to be there.
People can talk DNA all day but there was a dispersion, of course their DNA is muddied. But it’s interesting how they all share physical features, one of them pretty prominently which I won’t name but everyone knows, no pun intended…even though they came back from just about everywhere.
When I was Muslim, I compared Muhammad’s last words to Jesus’ last words.
Not just the facts, but the spirit behind them.
And bro, the difference is staggering. It shook my devout Muslim faith.
According to Sahih al-Bukhari, Muhammad’s final words included: “May Allah curse the Jews and the Christians. They made the graves of their prophets into places of worship.”
Those are words associated with his final moments.
No forgiveness. No reconciliation. No peace.
Now compare that to Jesus.
Beaten, betrayed, tortured, hanging on a cross with nails through His wrists, Jesus says:
“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
And then: “It is finished.”
One dies speaking curses.
The other dies extending forgiveness.
One ends by drawing lines and reinforcing division.
The other tears the veil and reconciles heaven and earth.
And whether people like it or not, final words reveal something deeply personal about the heart.
That contrast shook me.
Because one man’s final moments reinforced separation, while the other’s changed eternity through mercy, sacrifice, and love.
Please sit with that honestly.