Fans for Fair Tickets

Fighting for fair practices in live events and ticketing. Free Market over Monopoly. All posts are my personal opinions.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

First, making secondary resale illegal doesn’t make it disappear. It just pushes it underground, creating more fraud, less transparency, and fewer protections for consumers.

Second, TM would still have Platinum and dynamic pricing, which essentially lets them charge secondary-market prices directly. The difference is you’ve eliminated the competition and left consumers with one main source. Open your eyes, Randy.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

TM has multiple revenue streams. The secondary market absolutely competes with TM, both with TM Resale and their dynamic/Platinum pricing. You’re treating TM Primary like it’s their only business, and it isn’t.

If you remove TM Resale, secondary sites, and individual resellers, you’re reducing consumer choice and pushing even more fans toward TM Primary (aka Monopoly).

[tommy @tommydprimetim1]

ECONOMIST RAISES BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT MASSACHUSETTS’ TICKET BILL BACKED BY LIVE NATION, TICKETMASTER AND IRVING AZOFF’S MUSIC ARTISTS COALITION

Economist Jonathan Shefftz argues the legislation is ���actually in the best interests of Ticketmaster.” He points out that the 110% price cap only applies to resale tickets while primary ticket prices remain uncapped.

He also argues that restricting the competitive resale market could allow Ticketmaster to fine-tune the ticket market even further through its existing market position and consolidation.

https://t.co/Ke0vaMPloj

@MassGovernor @TheYoungJurks

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@kapkap42 Guess I should’ve taken you up on the bet! Lol what a joke these promoters are thinking they could sell that out

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@TheTicketTruth Let me answer that. No.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@TicketsData I think it just has to do with where most people live. A lot of sparse area in the west still.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

To be clear, live nation Ticketmaster consistently spends more on lobbying not including their social campaigns dedicated to convincing fans resellers are the problem.

Randy, you are choosing a small period in California on purpose, as that is a time of big spending by StubHub to avoid your side intentionally trying to place an all out price cap on resale tickets. If you are not a paid shill for LN/TM, you certainly should be.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

Here’s a question nobody seems to ask:

Why are retail bots for limited sneakers and collectibles mostly accepted, while ticket bots were made federally illegal?

Live Nation/Ticketmaster spent decades shaping the public narrative around ticket resale while lobbying for laws that benefited their position in the market.

The BOTS Act, which LN/TM pushed for and Obama signed into law, is now being used in ways that can turn things as basic as running multiple browser sessions into a serious legal issue for ticket resellers.

Meanwhile, consumers and politicians have largely been convinced that the free secondary market is the root of the ticket industry’s problems, rather than asking how much of it comes from the structure and business practices of the primary market itself.

If Nike were the only major shoe company in America, I have a feeling sneaker bots would have been banned too.

Instead, sneaker kids grew up and went on to build startups, raise VC money, and become respected entrepreneurs.

Ticket resellers learned to stay quiet and hope the ticket mafia doesn’t come knocking.

Great piece by Nicolas. The one thing I’d add is that many of those same sneakerheads have now entered ticket resale and become some of its biggest players.

That has only intensified the technological arms race, bringing more sophisticated technology into an industry that was already under enormous regulatory pressure.

Sneaker bots created entrepreneurs.

Ticket bots created criminals.

The difference might have less to do with the bots than with who controlled the industry around them.

[Nicolas Brillante @nickbruhman]

https://t.co/HwdVxgPmCL

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@forcemm @Ticketmaster @StubHub @grok compare the total amount of money spent by live nation Ticketmaster on lobbying since 2000 compared to StubHub

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

Nike has backed efforts to pass the “Stopping Grinch Bots Act” since 2019, and Congress has repeatedly let it die without meaningful movement. Do your research.

That contrast matters. LN/TM has spent years combining enormous market power, lobbying influence, and a highly effective public narrative that directs consumer anger toward the secondary market. Again and again, they’ve managed to get policy outcomes that favor their interests.

The same broader pattern is showing up in how they’ve navigated the DOJ fight.

And when people blindly repeat LN/TM’s framing as if it’s neutral fact, they become useful idiots for a company that has every incentive to shape the public’s understanding of the market.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

They hold thousands of tickets back, act like they release them during presales and onsales, then slowly drip them out at platinum prices and/or backdoor them directly to secondary markets themselves and blame resellers for sky high prices. This is the standard tactic nowadays for all major events unfortunately. I’m an industry insider so I know.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

I reply because I want others reading this to understand that there is an actual counterargument to his framing. His conclusion that the primary market is always right, that artists and teams should have absolute control, and that the secondary market is inherently parasitic ignores some of the most basic principles of economics and how open markets function.

At this rate, though, with consumer frustration growing and politicians increasingly willing to let LN/TM dictate the rules of the market, his view could eventually become the reality. That’s exactly why people on the other side of this debate need to speak up.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

A ticket being a license doesn’t explain why bots are federally illegal. Licensing governs the rights you receive when you buy the ticket, including what restrictions may apply to its transfer or use.

The BOTS Act regulates something different: the method used to acquire tickets in the primary market.

You can argue that artists should control whether their tickets are transferable or resold, but that doesn’t explain why using automation to acquire scarce tickets is a matter of federal law while using similar automation to acquire scarce sneakers, collectibles, or other retail products generally isn’t.

That difference is a policy choice, not an inherent consequence of tickets being licenses. And my argument is that the policy difference exists because the dominant players in the primary ticket market had the market power, political influence, and lobbying apparatus to turn their purchasing rules into federal law in a way retailers in other industries never did.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

Here’s a question nobody seems to ask:

Why are retail bots for limited sneakers and collectibles mostly accepted, while ticket bots were made federally illegal?

Live Nation/Ticketmaster spent decades shaping the public narrative around ticket resale while lobbying for laws that benefited their position in the market.

The BOTS Act, which LN/TM pushed for and Obama signed into law, is now being used in ways that can turn things as basic as running multiple browser sessions into a serious legal issue for ticket resellers.

Meanwhile, consumers and politicians have largely been convinced that the free secondary market is the root of the ticket industry’s problems, rather than asking how much of it comes from the structure and business practices of the primary market itself.

If Nike were the only major shoe company in America, I have a feeling sneaker bots would have been banned too.

Instead, sneaker kids grew up and went on to build startups, raise VC money, and become respected entrepreneurs.

Ticket resellers learned to stay quiet and hope the ticket mafia doesn’t come knocking.

Great piece by Nicolas. The one thing I’d add is that many of those same sneakerheads have now entered ticket resale and become some of its biggest players.

That has only intensified the technological arms race, bringing more sophisticated technology into an industry that was already under enormous regulatory pressure.

Sneaker bots created entrepreneurs.

Ticket bots created criminals.

The difference might have less to do with the bots than with who controlled the industry around them.

[TICKETSHELP1 @Ticket_Help2022]

So the major changes since @saumil has taken over as Global President of @ticketmaster has been:

1. Force fans to risk handing over some of their most sensitive personal data just to buy tickets. Don’t comply within a week, you will permanently lose access to buying on Ticketmaster.

2. Block more fans with browsing activity paused and call them bots

3. A new webpage that fans don’t see any improvements on.

4. Allow a personal AI agent that can shop for tickets, while Ticketmaster simultaneously treats automated ticket-buying behavior as “bot” activity.

5. Allowing “partners” to take advantage of fans who can no longer attend shows with low ball offers for their tickets.

6. Told fans that the Ticketmaster queue isn’t random, despite years of fans being led to believe that getting into the waiting room gave everyone a fair shot.

If the goal was to make the fan experience worse, put more personal information at risk, create more ways to block legitimate customers, and make fans less likely to use your platform in the future.

Job well done!

Great hire @Michael_Rapino and fantastic work.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

So if a fan uses AI to buy concert tickets, then resells them they are breaking the BOTS act? Interesting how industries and tech moves so quickly that regulation cannot keep up. If this is the case, we will have an entirely new unenforceable movement of regular consumers dominating ticketing websites.

[signüll @signulll]

agents trying to book things with finite supply is going to be hilariously chaotic.

we’re about to introduce software level race conditions into real life. two thousand agents refreshing the same dinner reservation, concert ticket, apartment, flight upgrade, etc.

distributed systems problems except now the lock is a table for two at 8pm in the west village.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@bkolendowski @kapkap42 Not interested in doing side bets on X.

[TICKETSHELP1 @Ticket_Help2022]

I’ll admit it: I was completely wrong about @saumil.

I truly believed he would make @Ticketmaster a better experience for fans.

Instead, Ticketmaster is using Persona to force fans to hand over sensitive identity information just to buy tickets while putting fans’ privacy and security at risk.

Now more fans than ever are getting browsing activity paused with no explanation, while simply trying to buy a ticket or join Olivia Rodrigo silver ticket option to get in fans cheaply.

Ticketmaster also turns off cart timers making it a race to check out. Every single person knows a bot will always win that race, yet they continue to go this route.

Saumil has also admitted the queues aren’t random which was a huge shock to many people, then never gave us a comment again about it. Lastly, Ticketmaster has what he called “partners” capable of sending lowball offers to fans who can’t attend for their tickets.

I thought Saumil becoming the new Global President of Ticketmaster would have made it better for fans.

Instead, I’ve watched the fan experience get way worse.

[Fans for Fair Tickets @FansForFairTix]

@kapkap42 If I wanted to invest in anything to do with this event I would have either bought the tickets or shorted them myself.