harry

Deist. Father. Husband. Computer Programmer.

[harry @harryFoTR]

https://t.co/cEBgb5RLma

[harry @harryFoTR]

Spiderman Brand New Day is an excellent movie. On the whole dilemma around the villain...

SPOILERS AHEAD BEWARE...
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She's not human. She's a mutant. She's a kid mutant. She's an orphaned kid mutant. She's an orphaned kid mutant whose sister has been kidnapped.

What do you think? Should she go around and be nice and try not to hurt people until she finds her sister? Hand out ice cream to anyone who helps her?

The key point is that she *is* dangerous. But how do you deal with dangerous enhanced humans/mutants:
1. Should you surveil them constantly and lock em up if they step out of line? (Military)
2. Should you capture them and experiment on them to even the scales? (Damage Control)
3. Should you just kill them? (Punisher)
4. Should you try and control their DNA to suppress them from who they really are? (Spiderman, though Banner and MJ question the morality)

Notice that none of this considered asking the mutants themselves? What about their rights? They should not be judged by humans because they are NOT humans. Can enhanced humans/mutants and humans ever get along?

This is a central theme in the movie with Peter. Can Peter accept ALL aspects of himself and be completely himself or should he continue to live a double life. In the end, he choses to be both.

Kids need parents to guide them, so Peter invites Jean into his head so he can show her that she is not alone, like he has been these last 4 years.

Oh, and no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you. Those scenes are classic shock tropes. Comic books do them all the time.

Jeanne GRAY has always been morally GRAY. I thought she was the heart of the film. The child that needed saving from themselves. She was also played adorably by the actress. Channeling her Stranger Things Season 3 vibes.

[harry @harryFoTR]

It lead to one of the best scenes in the movie. When MJ told Peter she doesn't love him. The Music was shut off in the scene, just like the music shut off in Homecoming when Peter found out the Vulture was his girl friends dad.

In that moment Peter probably realized how naive he was to think that reading that note would be all it would take to make everything the way that it was. It can never be the same again. Maybe he even realized that the outcome would have been the same had he told her 4 years ago.

[harry @harryFoTR]

@perpetua @Duhlorean98 Yeah, not an expert on the terminology. Metahuman, enhanced human, Mutant, same difference.

She IS a mutant, I know that, but Marvel seems to be avoiding that term until a later use perhaps.

[harry @harryFoTR]

@LSaddler13 Same difference. Marvel just hasn't decided to call them mutants yet.

[harry @harryFoTR]

No. How can a human judge a meta-human? The meta-human isn't even human so why should they accept the humans moral standards?

This is the world that these characters live in. There are meta-humans who require considerable amount of restraint so they don't accidentally kill a whole bunch of people.

What do you think, that these same meta-humans will just bow down and give their lives because they hurt humans? "Here, come take my life because I was a reckless orphaned meta-human who never had a parent to guide me and was trying to get my sister back".

Of course, you keep forgetting that she's a child but even she understands that she needs to run and that's what she's doing, running, as she tries to be better.

This is the central theme of the movie, how do we deal with meta-humans:

1. Should we constantly serveil them and lock them up if they get out of line? (Military)
2. Should we capture them and experiment on them to even the scales (Damage Control)
3. Should we just kill them (Punisher)
4. Should we suppress their DNA so they can never be truly themselves (Spiderman, though Banner and MJ question the morality).

Spiderman is going through the same struggle. Making Jean a kid makes the whole matter even more Gray. Should you just kill a child because they're a dangerous meta-human? Had it been an adult, the answer is yes.

Will this make that poor guy who got hurt by the taxi forgive her? He'll probably hate her forever, but the only way Jean can ever truly grasp what she has done is when she understands that humans can be treated with dignity and respect. She's too young and too powerful to understand that.

Looks like we both saw a very different movie. Which is why it works soo well.

[harry @harryFoTR]

In this world, there are humans and meta-humans. You calling her a terrorist is the human in you judging her. But why should she be judged by humans, when she isn't even human!

A meta-human may require considerably more restraint in order to not kill humans by just sneezing too hard. They cannot be held to the same standard, nor should they ever just accept being judged by humans equally.

That's one of the key points of the film, how should we deal with meta humans:
1. Should we constantly surveil them and lock them up if they step out of line (Military)
2. Should we capture them and experiment on them to even the scales? (Damage Control)
3. Should we just kill them (Punisher)
4. Should we suppress their DNA so they can never be fully themselves (Spiderman, though Banner and MJ question the morality).

The film ties in Peter's own journey of accepting who he is fully by the end with the same questions on meta-humans. Jean was the heart of the film. The child that needed to be saved from themselves. Because they *are* dangerous but they are ALSO an orphaned meta-human kid looking after the only family member they've ever known.

Kids need Parents and that's why Peter invited her in the end to enter his head so he could tell her that she's not alone, like he's been alone all these 4 years.

It was a great movie. Oh, and innocents don't die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you. If that's your only gripe, then it's a rather week one. Comic books use such shock panels all the time.

[harry @harryFoTR]

In this world, there are humans and meta-humans. You calling her a terrorist is the human in you judging her. But why should she be judged by humans, when she isn't even human!

A meta-human may require considerably more restraint in order to not kill humans by just sneezing too hard. They cannot be held to the same standard, nor should they ever just accept being judged by humans equally.

That's one of the key points of the film, how should we deal with meta humans:
1. Should we constantly surveil them and lock them up if they step out of line (Military)
2. Should we capture them and experiment on them to even the scales? (Damage Control)
3. Should we just kill them (Punisher)
4. Should we suppress their DNA so they can never be fully themselves (Spiderman, though Banner and MJ question the morality).

The film ties in Peter's own journey of accepting who he is fully by the end with the same questions on meta-humans.

Jean was the heart of the film. The child that needed to be saved from themselves. Because they *are* dangerous but they are ALSO an orphaned meta-human kid looking after the only family member they've ever known. Kids need Parents and that's why Peter invited her in the end to enter his head so he could tell her that she's not alone, like he's been alone all these 4 years.

It was a great movie. Oh, and innocents don't die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you.

[harry @harryFoTR]

I don't defend Wonda, but I can easily defend Jean GRAY. She's always been morally GRAY.

I saw her as an orphaned kid meta-human who is lashing out because her sister's been kidnapped. She's not a hero yet, she's *dangerous*.

The heart of the film. The kid that needed to be saved from themselves.

Should humans judge meta-humans as humans are judged? No, because they're not humans! A classic X-Men story that's been done countless times: How can meta-humans and humans co-exist with a set of laws that they can both agree on?

Oh, and no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you. Scenes like the taxi crash are classic comic book shock tropes.

[harry @harryFoTR]

She's still on the run. So she hasn't gotten away.

Also, you're judging her as a human being, but in the world, she's a meta-human. Even though it looked like she killed a bunch of people, she didn't. The MCU always explicitly tells us when innocents die. In the final scenes, Peter tells her she's not a murderer so even he thinks she hasn't killed anyone yet.

Instead, she is depicted as *dangerous*, an orphan, a kid and a meta-human.

The key questions are, how do humans deal with meta-humans? Do we constantly surveil them? Do we lock them up just in case? Do we capture them and experiment on them to take their powers and even the scales (Damage Control)? Or do we just kill them (Punisher)?

The point is that humans just cannot judge meta-humans. Nor should meta-humans just accept being judged by humans. They need to figure this out between themselves and that's been a classic story trope for the series for a long time.

[harry @harryFoTR]

Your judging her by human standards. In this world, there are humans and meta-humans. Why should they judge a meta-human by human standards? I mean, there not even human!

Her freezing all those people after finding out her sister was killed by the man right in front of her that is now trying to kill her can be equated to a human letting out a cry of agony because that's all a human can do. She's not a human though so she CAN freeze a whole bunch of people after finding out the same.

Oh and sorry, innocents only die in the MCU if they tell you. Peter even tells her that she's not a murderer in the final scenes, so he doesn't think she's killed anyone yet.

The key point is that she is *dangerous*. How do humans deal with meta-humans. Do we constantly surveil them? Do we lock em all up just in case? Do we capture them and take their powers to even the scales?

[harry @harryFoTR]

Classic comic book stuff. I remember in the 90s there were panels where some terrible shit got done and then a few pages later or the next chapter, it all worked out. Got boring pretty fast. It was just for the shock factor, and it worked for a while.

She hasn't been caught yet. She's still on the run. This can all play into future movies.

You think she's a terrorist but I think she's just a meta-human orphaned kid lashing out with her powers in order to do anything to get her sister. Even meta-human kids need parents, and the Aunt May scene at the end and Spiderman telling her that she had him is what she needed to hear after finding out her sister was murdered.

Oh, and no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you.

[harry @harryFoTR]

False equivalency. No one but Peter and a few others know who Jeanne Gray is. She's still on the run. She's just no longer the same meta-human kid lashing out with her powers to find her sister.

Remember, no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you.

The key question is, should meta-humans be judged by the same standards as humans?

[harry @harryFoTR]

Should meta-humans be judged by the standards of humans? I can give you one reason they should not.... they are NOT human!

She got away because she CAN. She's also no longer the same angry kid who was lashing out with her powers to find her sister. The idea is that she's a better meta-human now.

[harry @harryFoTR]

@OTUN_SHA It's a trivial detail. The fact that she's just a kid is the key reason why her story arch works. She's the kid that needs to be saved from herself.

[harry @harryFoTR]

False equivalency. Clay Face is like what? A 30 to 40 year old man?

Jeanne is a meta-human and a kid to boot. You're judging her as if she is an adult human who should be judged by adult human laws.

Should meta-humans be under constant surveillance, hunted down, imprisoned or killed? If so, why? They are not humans, so why should they even accept being judged by humans. Can they come up with a set of laws that they can both agree to? I mean, a meta-human may need considerable more restraint than a human to not just kill a bunch of humans by sneezing to hard.

When I saw the film, It was a great escape into a different world. One that is similar but very different. Jeanne GRAY has always been morally GRAY.

Oh, and no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you.

[harry @harryFoTR]

@reallypochu It's also a safe place to say that it's one of the best!

[harry @harryFoTR]

I didn't see it that way. You know why? Because she's a meta-human and on top of that, she's a kid meta-human.

To her, hopping into other peoples minds is just as easy as a human jumping. You're judging her as a human, but should we be judging meta-humans as we judge humans?

BTW - Jeanne GRAY has always bene morally GRAY. It worked because it looks like many people felt for her and many people hated her for what she did.

I felt for her. She was the heart of the movie. The kid that needed to be saved from themselves.

Oh, and no innocents die in the MCU unless they explicitly tell you.

[harry @harryFoTR]

@JediGenasi Howard the Duck?