Nonya Biz

Reluctant resident of clown world 🤡. Christ is King. ☦️

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

TLDR version of this thread on RC vs OC conceptions of original sin.

In 1140, the RCC dogmatically condemned the position of Peter Abelard for being too lenient on original sin. Abelard's position was much closer to the Orthodox view, that, man inherits hereditary sin/guilt via a natural privation, and is liable to Adam's punishment (including spiritual death) but not via inherited or imputed culpability (guilt in the strict sense). The RCC responded by rebuking Abelard and upholding their view that original sin comes with it "culpability". (See Denzinger, 376).

Here is the dogmatic decree (Denzinger 376, page 180 of open source link https://t.co/UXVlmOUNjG):

"Quod non contraximus culpam ex Adam, sed poenam tantum," translated as, "that we have not contracted sin [culpa] from Adam, but only punishment"

The photo with the title "VIII" (taken from https://t.co/DVTPrdIDFU) is the council's summary of Abelard's position that the dogmatic rebuke was in response to. Notice that Abelard believed in virtual containment in Adam, something that Ortho latinizers say the West never believed, even though Orthodox dogmatic manuals say that it's something the west did believe, as well as something Augustine himself taught (see comment below). Abelard was not condemned for "misreading augustine" on this point, nor for affirming hereditary sin/guilt qua natural privation and its accompanying liability to physical and spiritual punishment. He was condemned for denying inherited or imputed *culpability* -- guilt in the strict sense, the very thing that Ortho latinizers *concede* the OC does not confess BUT argue that the West never did either.

For those curious, Abelard's writings in question were his commentary on Romans. Open source link here, start with Romans 5. https://t.co/7Uz3Z2T8ln

It would very much seem that what the Orthodox Church has authoritatively confessed via the Confession on Dositheus (decree 6, on original sin, and 16 on baptism; https://t.co/I6SMjWGb3k) is wholly in line with (a) hereditary sin/guilt qua natural privation, (b) liability to bodily and spiritual punishment, while also, (c), overtly and explicitly denying hereditary sin qua inherited or imputed *culpability*. Orthodox catechisms and dogmatic manuals agree. See more in comments.

Bottom line: the RCC, at least at the council of Sens, dogmatically renounced the very same position that the Orthodox Church has synodally affirmed through at least one pan-Orthodox council, as well as multiple catechisms and dogmatic manuals.

so why are some latnizers saying the RC doctrine of OS is no different than the Orthodox doctrine? Lord only knows!

https://t.co/lyjRxWnrM9

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

Does it talk about the RC Council of Sens (1140), when the RCC dogmatized that original sin results in inherited *culpability* (Denzinger 376), which was a refutation of Peter Abelard, who argued that original sin only resulted in liability to due punishment, but not culpability with due guilt.

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@shenandoa_ @satisfyjustice no

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@MegynKellyShow that qr code placement...foids...

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@James_Theuer @satisfyjustice

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@inconnu0connu @Osarseph0 ?

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@inconnu0connu @Osarseph0 Okay, incidentally that was the case, or, in principle it couldn’t be otherwise?

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@the_primuspilus @TheNewCatacombs https://t.co/1fTj71KvVj

[Gregory Levitsky @LevitskyGregory]

The number of Orthodox Christians on this app who are READILY condemning the Patriarch of Jerusalem, a modern confessor of the Faith, for doing nothing more than hosting the “Archbishop” of Canterbury is extremely troubling.

His Beatitude did nothing wrong. He gave her a tour of the holy sites and hosted a reception in his apartments. He does this for everyone. There was no “ecumenism” here, no joint prayer service. Nothing.

Get ahold of yourselves and stop criticizing a Patriarch – especially over nothing and in pathetic prostration before enemies of the Faith.

[Tricknologist Yakub @Tricknologist_]

Update?

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@mar_10234 @CCyrillian it was done in sacramental settings and with worshipful-esque attitude. big difference

[Gab Riel🇺🇬 @Counsel_Gabriel]

@Pontifex Is the Pope neutral?

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

you have to show these are all canonical Orthodox churches, then give the context (is any of this during liturgy? not that i think the church building should be used like this, but there is still a massive distinction between a clown/pride mass of the RCC's and whatever this is).

[AdVoluntasTua ❤️‍🔥🇻🇦 🇺🇸 🇵🇹 🚜 @AdVoluntasTua]

We are one big happy 🔥🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈 synodal church now 👍

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@C2Antiquity bro this is just Roman Catholic standard operating procedure

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@AnteNicene325 https://t.co/1fTj71KvVj

[Gregory Levitsky @LevitskyGregory]

The number of Orthodox Christians on this app who are READILY condemning the Patriarch of Jerusalem, a modern confessor of the Faith, for doing nothing more than hosting the “Archbishop” of Canterbury is extremely troubling.

His Beatitude did nothing wrong. He gave her a tour of the holy sites and hosted a reception in his apartments. He does this for everyone. There was no “ecumenism” here, no joint prayer service. Nothing.

Get ahold of yourselves and stop criticizing a Patriarch – especially over nothing and in pathetic prostration before enemies of the Faith.

[Gregory Levitsky @LevitskyGregory]

The number of Orthodox Christians on this app who are READILY condemning the Patriarch of Jerusalem, a modern confessor of the Faith, for doing nothing more than hosting the “Archbishop” of Canterbury is extremely troubling.

His Beatitude did nothing wrong. He gave her a tour of the holy sites and hosted a reception in his apartments. He does this for everyone. There was no “ecumenism” here, no joint prayer service. Nothing.

Get ahold of yourselves and stop criticizing a Patriarch – especially over nothing and in pathetic prostration before enemies of the Faith.

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@PCIDigital they did the same with RC Marco Rubio...not much to see here really https://t.co/FZLaLaliD4

[Jim Jatras @JimJatras]

Bunk. Show me where they "prayed together."

He showed her around. He shook her hand, like he would anyone else's.

If you want to fault him for according too much respect to her as a "dignitary," feel free. But there's nothing in this clip indicating he accorded her a shred of sacerdotal status.

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@cyrilmatthai @CCyrillian cleave has shown plenty. good luck with it.

[MissBehavin808 @MissBehavin808]

Don't we get a steady diet of "human dignity" from Leo?

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@nickycantaloupe not anywhere near what she did at the vatican, with approval https://t.co/FZLaLaliD4

[Jim Jatras @JimJatras]

Bunk. Show me where they "prayed together."

He showed her around. He shook her hand, like he would anyone else's.

If you want to fault him for according too much respect to her as a "dignitary," feel free. But there's nothing in this clip indicating he accorded her a shred of sacerdotal status.

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@nickycantaloupe https://t.co/ig9Kib0LRR

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

dude the argument was never that we don't have abuses or instances of imprudence or of modernism ourselves. it's that your so-called indefectible papacy -- the very thing you suppose is necessary to safeguard against such errors -- has only catalyzed such errors, and at a massive scale, doing quite literally the opposite of what you promise communion with the pope protects against.

[Nonya Biz @HylomorphicBro]

@James_Theuer @satisfyjustice non-sequitur. according to you, he said it at least implicitly, otherwise you wouldn't hold that he was (a) orthodox on PSA and (b) 1 and 2 are dogma. pick one.