Joe Mo

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[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 You are a moron. The labor movement is a response to the failing system. This wouldn't be possible under socialism because the owners of the company are literally the workers themselves. If the labor movements keep revising capitalism, they will arrive at socialism.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 What? The Bolsheviks didn't overthrow Nicholas, they overthrew the provisional government after Nicholas had already abdicated. And yes like I said the *implementation* of their government was as a direct critique to capitalism. They were going to overthrow them regardless.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 Yeah labor movements are a part of capitalism. A part that capitalism doesn't particularly like. Crediting their efforts TO capitalism is as contradictory as crediting a company for their fix of a broken product after you hired someone else to fix it.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 I didn't say Tsarist Russia was capitalist like the western world. They were more feudal. The Bolsheviks implemented their government as a direct critique to western capitalism, not Tsarist feudal-capitalism. Therefore it was created within the context of western capitalism.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 The dictionary isn't wrong. Once again you've proven that you don't have any comprehension. Communism IS a form of socialism, so the definition is correct. You were wrong because you defined socialism as if it was communism. They don't have a biconditional relationship.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 Communism is socialism, not the other way around.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 You did botch the definition. You were explaining communism because you said it was based on state ownership. That little part in the definition you included that says "OR state ownership" is talking about what we colloquially refer to as communism. You said socialism is that.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 Marxism was written as a critique to capitalism as Russia was rapidly implementing it. Western capitalism is what Marx wrote his critique for. Capitalism is the context that created it. Marxism is clearly not capitalism.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 I'm sorry. Was it me or you who replied with a screenshot of a literal dictionary definition? You are the one who decided to have a definition battle with your attempt to explain socialism and capitalism down to me, when I clearly know more about them than you.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 And no. For communist parties, state socialism is the stepping stone towards communism and utopia. State socialism is communism lite. Social and collective ownership models of socialism are completely different forms, they are not communism lite.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 Rephrase? You mean you were just wrong? You thought socialism was the organization of the economy for communism which you thought was just a political system like democracies and republics. And you came out the gates like I didn't know anything about what I support.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 You know another strong labor movement that happened within the context of capitalism? The Russian revolution. Does this mean everything that the USSR was and did, is credited to capitalism?

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 You have no clue what you're talking about. Communism is its own economic system. This is why it can be under the umbrella of socialism. Communism is one final idea of economy and the state. Where there is abundance, no state, and no class. That is not socialism, it's communism.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 Also, acting like Henry ford gave us the weekend is the biggest rewrite in history. It was the labor movement that fought years for it. While the capitalists said they were lazy, labor unions said it would make workers more productive. Ford was persuaded by the labor movement.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 I would say free markets complement capitalism. They aren't a feature of it, since you can have capitalism without free markets.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 And no, it still doesn't recognize every individual. Only if the individual has capital. Private property is only owned by capitalists (factories, businesses, etc). Since the worker does not own a part of the private property, they are not recognized by capitalism in that sense.

[Joe Mo @JoeMo05200771]

@ReaganCaucusNC @xianghu73574129 What do you think socialism is? It's revised capitalism. We are never in a state of being one or the other. The system is constantly changing. Socialism is just a collection of ways to change the system, with the goal of improving this. You think capitalism gave you the weekend?