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@joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab Your strict criteria would exclude many conditions from medicine, such as fibromyalgia, IBS, chronic fatigue syndrome, and many others. You need to either explain how these conditions meet your criteria or say that they also aren't medical conditions.

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@StigmaB47868 In my defense, both Gemini and DeepSeek said he only received hydrotherapy when asked "what treatment did van gogh receive at the psychiatric hospital?" But yeah, shouldn't have trusted AI so much.

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@StigmaB47868 I was wrong. I confess!

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@awaisaftab I find it funny how the roles are flipped here. Usually it's the critics that mercilessly criticize a psychiatric method. Now they're on the receiving end. This part here could've been written by one of them, lol:

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@moreisdifferent @DrGipps Would you say it's kinda like extroversion and introversion in a sense? One group's strategy to gain energy is the opposite of what the other group does.

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@moreisdifferent @DrGipps At the very least it would be counterproductive. That's what I'm getting at.

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@AlanLevinovitz Why did you say "It's hard to say" in your 'third possibility' explanation? Aren't those the usual placebo effects and expectancy effects? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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@tylerblack32 When it comes to "your side", I get the grifter vibes from Dr. Sanil Rege.

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@tylerblack32 The people I still respect are Mark Horowitz and Martin Plöderl. And Michael P. Hengartner also seems alright.

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@KemtrupTweets I like your posts, but they are often very long, which are hard to read on twitter. Would you maybe consider getting the premium membership so you can write longer posts? Just and idea. I never had it, so I'm not 100% how it works, but I think that's the solution.

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@joannamoncrieff @psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @awaisaftab And even my doctor did the same when I had chronic prostatitis. He referred me to a psychiatrist. Said he doesn't know what to do.

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@joannamoncrieff @psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @awaisaftab I think chronic illnesses in medicine clearly show that your distinction is blurry. There are tons of people with chronic illnesses who get thrown into psych wards because doctors don't know what to do with them. Here's an example:

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@psychgeist52 @joannamoncrieff @eclecticherbal @awaisaftab In the article you give this critique to psychiatric illnesses. But you'd have to extend it to chronic medical illnesses as well if you think they are also not objective (which they aren't). They are similar in structure. Ambiguous, with no clear mechanism. Same patient stories.

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@psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab In the article you give this critique to psychiatric illnesses. But you'd have to extend it to chronic medical illnesses as well if you think they are also not objective (which they aren't). They are similar in structure. Ambiguous, with no clear mechanism. Same patient stories.

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@psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab I mean, why is it not better to say that some illnesses in medicine are more similar to psychiatric illnesses and some of them are not? Look, here's an example of how similar they get (article in the thread). It has to be the same sort of stuff: https://t.co/62WMpRARWL

[Mark Horowitz @markhoro.bsky.social @markhoro]

It is slightly reassuring that the madness of denying iatrogenic harm is not confined to psychiatry but is a part of the wider cognitive dissonance of medicine. Same principles: tolerance, withdrawal worse than original condition, condition blamed, patients dismissed.

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@psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab No, I think you can differentiate it both ways. You can picture psychiatry and medicine as separate, but you can also picture it both connected. In any case, the crucial point is - what parts are similar to each other, and what follows from that.

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@psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab Yes it does.

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@psychgeist52 @eclecticherbal @joannamoncrieff @awaisaftab No, it shows that you'd have to extend your critique of psychiatry to that part of medicine as well. Which would blur the edges between the two, and you'd have to make overall changes to your critique of psychiatry.