@PetriOP I have always said that the problem is not the NO in and of itself, but that we had a generation of very poorly formed priests who did not know how to perform the rites with dignity and respect.
From Ecclesiae de Mysterio (1997): To promote the proper identity (of various roles) in this area, those abuses which are contrary to the provisions of canon 907 [of the Code of Canon Law] are to be eradicated. In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity. (EM, Practical Provisions, Article 6, §2, emphasis added)
The problem is not the NO Mass which can be beautiful and inspiring or clownish and insipid. It is the formation of priests, which has been terrible for many years and only now seems to be getting back on track. Get good traditional priests with good theological bases and the NO problems will would themselves out.
@Thindithron@normonics Actually, the Vatican ruled in 1997 that use of the Orans extended hand posture by the laity during the Our Father was improper.
The problem is not the NO liturgy. I have participated in many reverent, meaningful NO Masses. I have also attended many terrible NO Masses. The key is to form the priests better -- the Post V2 priestly formation was terrible and led to some real abuses. However, while I have never been to a TLM Mass, I don't believe I would like it.
Catholicism will save the west; we built the west. Protestant Freemasons got cucked by the Jews and now they run the US. Catholic Groypers will take it back.
To the clip Zoomer showed from Vatican News, Pope Leo is literally just speaking about treating immigrants like humans, accepting the strangers as if they were Christ (Mt. 25:35).
Zoomer is also acting like this statement by the Pope is in some way magisterial? Which it isn’t, and this just goes more to show his ignorance to Catholicism.
Pope Leo is also not calling for open borders either, see the clip below 👇
@JWick49662@Barkley_Tap Add Doug Williams
I've always thought that an argument could be made that Joe Gibbs is the GOAT because he won 3 SBs with three different QBs, none of whom ever did anything else apart from their single SB year.
@LMSChairman No, this is precisely the point. Poor liturgy is poor liturgy, period. The problem is poor priestly formation, not the liturgical rubrics.
Whenever I see lists of liturgical abuses or improprieties, I am reminded of Mt. 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence." The issue is not the TLM or NO, but the fact that we had a generation of priests that were very poorly formed, and that they are now poorly formed bishops. I wonder what Jesus would make of all of the fine golden vessels and sumptuous vestments and other trappings of the Church's wealth. Our scrupulosity about rules threatens the proclamation of the Word. That is troublesome.
The problem with the German bishops that no one addresses is that they provide the money to run a great deal of the Vatican through the German church tax. If they take their ball and go home, the Vatican is effectively bankrupt. Which, actually, might be a good thing -- I've always thought that Constantine making the Church official and linking it with the empire was the first great error, on which many future errors were based.
@shipwreckedcrew I realized Trump was special when I was an election official at a precinct in FL 2016 presidential closed primary. We had tons of registered Democrats demanding Republican ballots (which they were not entitled to) in order to vote for Trump.
@SGTWipper1Each New York, New York; City of New Orleans; Georgia on My Mind; Tennessee Waltz; Grand Old Flag; Yankee Doodle Dandy; Yellow Rose of Texas.