EB

☦️

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@redeemed_zoomer Congrats on the new job! Praying for your success in whatever you do brother! If you ever swing by Florida let me know, I live around St.augustine and there are lots of pretty cool historical churches here 👍

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@WesleyLHuff Having an expert on the Greek and scriptural text REALLY tackle the Marian doctrine of perpetual virginity would be AMAZING! Mark (semitic) and Luke (native) both written in Greek affirm Jesus had siblings. The protoevangelium of James and such is a great topic to touch into.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

I mean this with all love and sincerity, whoever told you that was misleading you and you should not trust that person.

Please sincerely read John 4:22 in context. It claims the opposite of what you stated. He was telling the Samaritan woman and telling her she was not worshiping the Jewish God of Abraham. He says the Jews DO know what they worship. It also goes onto to immediately claim he is the Messiah.

Angels and apostles always refuse worship. Jesus never refused worship.

In John 8:58,

Jesus said "before Abraham was, I AM." He claims that before Abraham was born He existed. The name of God in ancient Hebrew as "I am." This is why the Pharisees immediately tried to stone him because he blasphemed and claimed to be God.

John 5:23 says "all may honor the son just as they honor the father."

Matthew 14:33 shows the disciples worshiping him.

John 9:38 shows a blind man healed by Jesus worshipping Him.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

I'm a "Christian Nationalist" and I do not have hate in my heart for anyone, including Muslims. In fact, I think we have more in common with Muslims than we do Jews. Muslims recognize Christ was the Messiah.

I only worship Christ, not political leaders.

I'm sorry if people who claim to be Christian have given you a poor impression.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@AntoineBMusic @PackersBy90 @valjtb @wendelltalks Thanks man! God bless

[EB @PensiveBrush]

Thank you.

Unfortunately it will ultimately be circular because she cannot agree to the definition of evil.

I gave her a proper definition that explains it, and she rejects it without explaining why.

She thinks evil is a thing and won't accept any other definition because it would render her argument useless.

She thinks God created the conditions for evil, which is true. But that just simply is not the same as creating evil.

How can God create free will without the possibility of evil? It would illogical.

As I mentioned,

It would be like saying God created ignorance because he created knowledge. Or that God

Or that God created lies because he created truth.

She also avoided the question that challenged her presuppositions.

If God created the conditions for evil, but not evil itself, what's wrong with that? What are you using as a reference to judge God with?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

The question “Did God create evil?” hinges on how we define evil. We have to operate under the assumption God creates all things, so we cannot move the goal post to where I justify that in my statement.

If evil is a corruption/absence of good—as many classical theologians say, then it’s not a created substance but a consequence of free will.

That’s not redefining to avoid the question; it’s defining to answer it.

I didn’t shift to tone, I asked for specificity in your critique. If you believe my logic is flawed, naming the fallacies would help clarify your position.

Circular debates do go nowhere when definitions aren’t agreed upon. That’s why I started with metaphysics to establish a shared framework.

If you ever want to revisit this with clearer terms or mutual definitions, I’m open. Truth deserves precision.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

I'm operating under the premise of your original question...."If God created all thing"...then XYZ... So I have to debate if God is real as well to qualify your own premise?

I defined what evil is to justify my statement...you can engage with that on a logical level and debate it versus dismissing it.

You are committing a "moving the goal post" fallacy.

Can you point out what logical fallacies I used, instead of just asserting that I used ones? That is an "unsupported assertion" fallacy.

Notice how you didn't say anything specific, and you didn't have the courtesy to even attempt to answer my question?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

God did create all things...He did not create evil...because evil is not a thing...

Evil is not a substance. It is a corruption/privation of good (good being God's presence; which is a thing.)

He created free will....which can have a consequence of evil...

It would be like saying that in creating light you created darkness...but darkness is what happens when you take the light away.

Evil is a corruption of good; not a created rival.

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge; not a created rival.

Death is the absence of life; not a created rival.

Now...your turn...what would be morally wrong if God created evil? What sense of justice and fairness are you appealing to if you condemn God for this?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

Principle of what? Justifying killing others? Or unjustified killing ?

You kinda contradicted yourself. They justify their killing as do other people.

As you admitted, the unjustifiable killing of innocent human beings is something a good amount people inherently know is wrong. That’s why they try to justify it.

The debate is not if killing other humans for a seemingly justifiable reason is okay…..

It’s how do we define justifiable?

Because most humans today recognize that’s wrong…but we need an objective source to help define that…

But it’s something people can get very confused about if it’s all just opinions of online atheist…

Abortion for example is by definition the killing of an innocent human life…from a purely scientific standpoint an unborn child at the moment of conception is human. People value bodily autonomy more and justify killing the child. What can we appeal to?

Also psychopaths exist and they don’t feel empathy…they will kill and justify it for simply making them feel a particular way…you can’t say in advance if that’s wrong from a relativistic standpoint…

You can’t say rape, genoicide, abusing children, killing people for disabilities, etc. is wrong in advance when you don’t have an objective standard.

Reducing human suffering…promoting survival….etc…are all objective standards of morality…

[EB @PensiveBrush]

It's not inherently abhorrent to millions and millions of Muslims...

Maybe to us in the west....who have built our civilizations on Christian morality...

The morality you keep appealing to...

You cannot account for why it's objectively wrong to murder or take a life apart from divine command theory...

You are confusing people because you keep avoiding dealing with the core premise of that.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@BCH1066 @hrparrishh @grok @DrFrankTurek @grok answer briefly please ...Was Christ made to be divine much later or is it historically accurate to say that it's more of a debate of the apostles/contemporaries/and extra biblical sources lying/misunderstanding rather than inaccurate translations or later myth building?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

Yeah...that is an opinion. There isn't really any logic or anything for me to interact with that. It's just an assestion. Just like saying that the supernatural Jesus is not real just because you say so according to your naturalistic bias.

I'm agnostic towards all gods and mythological creatures I have not researched. I'm atheistic towards beliefs we can actually disprove. Like sanata clause or Joseph Smith (mormanism.)

I don't say they don't exist simply because I don't want them to or it doesn't square with my sensibilities...that's the definition of bias and close-mindedness.

We're not talking about a belief that's asks you to suspend reason or believe something that cannot be disproven. It's based on a historical event...which was very very clearly not mythologized later...

I'm not convinced of the naturalist atheistic assertion...it's literally illogical and FAR more supernatural to me to accept.

Honestly though, you have been highly disrespectful and have not said anything of actual substance. Have a nice day.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@k440375058 @counseloftrent I see, I was a little confused haha. I've never heard of a Byzantine rite Catholic. I'll have to research that

I can't stand with the pope on his lax views of abortion. But I understand the Catholic doctrine is more paramount.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

@k440375058 @counseloftrent Is this what is considered "Eastern Orthodox?" The sect that split during the great schism?

If I were to dive into traditional orthodoxy I would almost certainly go that route versus the Catholic route.

[EB @PensiveBrush]

I really view Catholics as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I would get a long ALOT better with a conservative Catholic than a liberal Protestant/evangelical. I'm glad the Vatican II made concessions for recognizing our shared bond in Christ.

What has your experience in the Catholic church been like? Have you ever visited a evangelical church?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

I mean that is an opinion....holding to the position Jesus never existed is extremely radical by historical standards. I would need to be convinced of that.

A lot of your claims are just assertions. You're not directly interacting with any of the logic of what I'm saying.

@grok can you answer very simply, is Jesus widely regarded as a historical figure who actually existed by most historians, whether they are secular or religious?

[EB @PensiveBrush]

Amen 🙏 faith without works is dead.

I personally have that traditionally protestant understanding of faith alone followed by works as a response not as justification.

The work was done on the cross. I cannot earn my salvation in any way.

Ephesians 2:8–9
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Galatians 2:16
“Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ…”

Philippians 3:9
“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ…”

Romans 3:24–25
“Justified freely by his grace… through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.”

Hebrews 10:10–14
“By a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.”

And of course the all time classic evangelical tagline 😅

John 3:16–18
“Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life… Whoever believes in him is not condemned…”

John 5:24
“Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment…”