RogueRhoads60

He/HIm 18 | Star Wars Guy

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t the only reasoning right now for exactly why he goes full Sith are reasons that don't line up with who he is, and also what Vergere had taught him.

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t I could potentially see him scoping out and being curious about the Sith and their role in history, maybe repurporse Lumiya's interactions and throw them into an actual story on his 5 year travels, but I cannot see him actually embracing any sort of Sith role

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t Thats where Vergere comes into play, its near exactly what Vergere ended up changing for Jacen. She's the factor that forces him to really look deeper into people's perspectives and by extension, his own

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@Mitthurfian How the fuck did Sha'a Gi get so far, but Jacen didn't even get past round 1

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t where is this in the text? Masking implies his beliefs, his compassion, etc are just cover ups for his true feelings, but thats never at all a point made in the books. Like I said above, it just feels like you have a very different perception of him in opposition to his portrayal

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t I think we might just have to agree to disagree here. Nothing you've said about Jacen's problems/flaws are inherently wrong, but I'm just unconvinced that these could ever convincingly lead into a Sith Lord direction when the text portrays the stark opposite of it

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t I don't believe that has much connection to his morality or his innate beliefs, I always interpreted it as a bit of neurodivergency in him.

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t He talks about compassion because he just is compassionate. Its not an act or a show to prove he's a good Jedi, its just who he is. Since he was a kid he's always been empathetic and felt a deep connection to all life.

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t I'm quite confused by the way you view Jacen as a character, because very little of what you're saying here is ever really supported in the books themselves. Its true he's inward and stubborn, but like I said, its something that Traitor breaks down and has him come to terms with

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@DisneyCanonLs There's gay mandalorians in the EU too lil bro

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t Idk its pushing a narcissistic personality onto Jacen when he never had one.

On the self-image part, thats what he did in NJO, thats what is laid out in Traitor, and is also portrayed when he surrenders control and gains spiritual enlightenment at the end

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t But it shouldn't lead to him going full Sith and trying to kill everyone he loves, and going full comically evil villain mode.

That is not who he is, and that is definitely not a natural transition in any shape

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t The path forward is him having the freedom to be who he'd like to be. Him going out to travel the galaxy after TUF was actually a little nod to James Luceno's own youth

Also we gotta remember that this guy is 20, he's not gonna have all of the answers, and he IS gonna struggle

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t I'd agree with you here if these imperatives were actually written to be twisted versions of these imperatives. And also if these imperatives within NJO were used to tell a more negative story at first, which it does neither

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t Its a thematic stain because its so bleak lol. And its also redundant for the story. Every positive messaging or value within his story is bulldozed over because it all leads to him being an evil guy now.

Nothing in Traitor fundamentally works if he becomes a Sith later

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@Mitthurfian and then Jacen can finally beat Count Poopoo

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t @Mitthurfian I'd also go further and say that concept in of itself of making Jacen into a Sith after Traitor of all stories, holds no real positive value as a story, and was more a shock value decision than a calculated one, and it leaves an overly negative thematic stain on the whole story

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t @Mitthurfian Its quite the big leap to take this man who literally stared into that abyss, and was isolated within it for months, and at any point could've just snapped and killed every Vong, but instead embraced pure unconditional love in the end, and make him a Sith on rather weak ground...

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t @ComicsShauna @Mitthurfian @eleventhirtyate And that ends up truly actualising when he gains oneness at the end, when he surrenders all control and embraces the Unifying Force. That scene also is a pointer of where he's gonna go in the future. Surrender that fear of not knowing where to go, etc

[RogueRhoads60 @RogueRhoads20]

@visor_t @ComicsShauna @Mitthurfian @eleventhirtyate I don't know man there's a big part of Jacen's conclusion which pretty much is him actualising what Vergere said, and thats majority of his actions post-Traitor. Its less about finding meaning of Vergere's own motives, but rather within himself. Thats what Traitor was all about