Sammy B

Coffee's on...so come on over. Reservations and call-aheads not required. Beware: we like it strong.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

No, a whole lot of words to say that most of these opinions have nothing to do with a child or family. But has EVERYTHING to do with how they view and treat other human beings.

So, what’s worse? Leaving a child in a “natural” family that could be abusive down the road? Or letting a gay couple have the right to a family just like the straights?

And to the straights that can’t conceive naturally, the argument from every opinion I’ve read is that surrogacy and IVF are evil. So, now you’re telling straight couples they can’t have a family because it’s unnatural. Even adoptions are unnatural, by the popular definition.

Is an “unnatural” procedure complicated with multiple risks to both birth mother and child? Absolutely. I’m not disputing that in the slightest.

Is surrogacy so bad if another woman is willing to carry for someone who can’t, to at least give them a chance at becoming a mom or dad? Every surrogacy pregnancy I’ve heard of it wasn’t a complete stranger to the couple hoping for a child. It was a close friend or family. Did you all forget that there are good people actually willing, volunteering to help out when all else fails? Apparently.

And the questions from my other posts are still unanswered, instead deflected back to original talking points.

When did we, as a species, decide to take it upon ourselves to judge a lifestyle and then decide that the people living that lifestyle were unworthy of God’s love? That they were unworthy to have a family of their own because how they did it was immoral to you?

I said before that I am strongly pro-life, for every child, in every part of the world. What I don’t agree with or stand for, will be a discussion between me and God when my time comes.

The only thing I have posited here is what you would do for the child when there is no ideal or perfect family for them? And what do you do for another HUMAN BEING who cannot conceive naturally but desperately wants a child and family?

Who are you to judge any of it? It’s not your place to act on behalf of God.

Don’t presume to be pro-life for anyone while you’re more intent on diminishing their life instead.

Do your homework. Look at all sides of the situation. Really have a conversation with God about what’s right and moral.

There is nothing “unnatural” about wanting to bring one of God’s creations into the world. I’m pretty sure he knows that there are millions of people around the world who can’t do it on their own. He created them, remember? So maybe, just maybe, he created ways for a child to be brought into the world that aren’t natural, to give that child and the parents a chance.

And,yes. There are many people who ARE sick and evil to go so far as to abort a child—natural or not—when there is a birth defect. There ARE people who pay enormous amounts of money to have the “perfect” child and then eventually neglect them. But you’re putting those people into the same category as those who have gone through those “immoral” methods with dignity and grace. And, essentially, telling them they’re evil for doing it.

Is that the Christian thing to do? Think about it.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

The whole argument of the original post was that it was inhumane or damaging to a child if they weren’t with their birth mother. That’s where the whole argument stems from. So, I’ll ask again: if it’s so important for a child to have their birth mother in every stage of their life, then why does any mother give up their child? Is it because they don’t want the child but choose to give it up for adoption instead of aborting it? Is it because they were young and unprepared for motherhood and wanted their child a chance at a better life?

If it’s so important the a child has their mother in every stage of their life, then who or what fills the space when the mother is permanently absent? You said you tell the kid “we love mom and miss her”, but the child is still without their birth mother.

As for the adoption/surrogate mothers: I don’t recall too many of them ever having a gun pointed at their head demanding they give up their rights. Most of the cases I’ve heard of, the birth mothers made that decision themselves. I was one, I should know. I don’t regret the decision I made. In fact, I would do it all again if the circumstances were the same.

You’re putting people like me in a category that has disparaged humanity. I gave my son a better life through two of the most incredible people I’ve ever met. He’s grown into a highly intelligent, caring, compassionate, and extremely tall young man. And the only thing I did was give birth to him. Although I have had regular contact with him his whole life, not once has he ever reached out to me when things got tough. He didn’t need me. He has his mom. And she’s amazing!!! I couldn’t have asked God for a better life for my child than with the two of them. He didn’t need me at any stage of his life, and for that I’m happy. And although they are mother and father, it wouldn’t have bothered me in the slightest if they were same-sex.

You want to know why? Because God sent me two angels to take care of my son. And, in the end, that is all that matters.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

First, I never claimed to be an expert on surrogacy. You’d have to be pretty f-in stupid to not realize that surrogacy and adoption around the world can be very inhumane. You’d have to be equally stupid to not realize that there are good agencies that exist just looking to put children into loving homes. That happens every day. Check your news feed on Facebook occasionally.

Second, are we talking about what’s really right for the child, or what fits your narrative better?

I’m a lifelong Christian conservative who strongly believes in the right to life, in any country, for every child, for every reason. I would not deny a child at the chance of a healthy happy life with a single parent or same-sex couple just for the sake of having a mother and a father. There are often too many times that the natural family doesn’t work out for the child…AT ALL!

I’ve had friends and family that have had a child via surrogacy, and it wasn’t a scam or exploitation. Birth mothers in adoption cases also give up their rights. That’s nothing new. Not every agency is going to be honest or noble in their mission. It’s up to birth mothers and prospective parents to do their homework and find the honest ones. Payment for surrogacy or adoption to the birth mother is to provide some financial relief during the pregnancy. In many circles I’ve been in, that’s considered a decent and respectful thing to do for the birth mother. If slavery or trafficking is the first thing that comes to your mind, then you’re only paying attention to the bad.

I gave my son up for adoption because I was very young and unprepared for motherhood, and I didn’t even find out I was pregnant until my third trimester. I was compensated by his adoptive parents for the time off of work. I knew what the stakes were. I knew what I was giving up. But I sure as hell would not have let my son grow up in a life that I couldn’t give him back then. His adoption was done through a (truly) Christian agency and we had an exceptional social worker with us every step of the way. It was a beautiful experience. Mine may be a unique situation but it proves that adoptions or surrogacy are not works of the devil.

Again, you all are looking at the negative and proclaiming to the world that that is the way it is—in every country, for every couple, period. That every adoption or surrogacy is harmful to the child. That every person who takes part in it is evil and doing a disservice to humanity. But it’s all part of your narrative. If you’ve truly met a child that was a result of adoption or surrogacy and they didn’t have both a mother and a father in their household, were they damaged? Were they despairing every day because they didn’t have a”normal” childhood? Were they lacking in skills that you consider to be socially normal? How many have you met? One? Five? A hundred? Are they all damaged? Or were there enough people around to nurture them and guide them so they could grow up strong, intelligent, healthy, and happy?

This whole argument has never been about the child’s best interests or about the rights of birth mothers. It’s about not respecting people for who they are, or the circumstances in their lives. It was about proclaiming that gay couples were unworthy of having children and a family. If they can’t have a family because you call it unnatural, then you are also saying that they are not worthy of being treated like human beings.

Does it really bother you that much? Because good and noble people aren’t bothered by it.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

First off, let’s explore the definition of “moral”: actions, behaviors, and beliefs that are indicative of good character and standing.

As for the Catholic Church, I don’t consider proclaiming the radical extremist arm of Islam as “peaceful” to be morally right. I’ve seen enough in Muslim countries to know that is definitely not true. As a matter of fact, the Catholic Church itself has a history of some pretty immoral incidents, so let’s stop with the their talking points.

Second, once you stop looking at an individual household and start looking at the world as a whole, you’ll realize there are several families that don’t have both. They never had. You’ll also realize that there are unique families where the parentage is not restricted to a mother and father. Instead the “parentage” or “guardianship” is left to other relatives or close friends.

Third, are you saying that when a heterosexual couple can’t conceive naturally that that’s it for them? They can’t adopt, or use surrogacy to have a child? Not everyone can afford the financial, mental, emotional, or spiritual heartache that comes with most IVF treatments. Is IVF considered immoral in your book?

You talk about family, yet forget that not all families are biological or natural. Family is who shows up, puts in the time, the effort, the love, the sacrifice, prays for strength and guidance, and attends to the child’s need whatever the cost. It has nothing to do with blood, biology, or DNA. Is that immoral to you?

I’ll ask it again and again: what do you claim is morally right when a child loses their mother in childbirth? What happens if they lose a father in an accident and was killed? What happens when both parents are not around for the child? Who steps in then? They are truly motherless or fatherless—by definition—so are they doomed to a life of despair because they are lacking? Or do they thrive because people outside of their parentage stepped in and fulfilled the roles they were lacking?

The Church (meaning ALL man-made religions) constantly talks about charity, but only if it’s morally right according to its own bylaws.

Romans 13:8-10 says, “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another. If man loveth another, then the law has been fulfilled.”

If a straight couple or a gay couple have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior (which does happen and is quite common) and their actions have been deemed honorable and good to others, and they have given charity to their fellow man when able, then how are they immoral when it comes to raising a child?

God made us in his image to do and be good. Not everyone turns out the way He intended. But there are a lot of people from all walks of life that are good and noble. And not all of them are the mother and the father. Does that make them immoral?

No, it does not.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

No, not necessarily. I may be a unique situation, but here goes: I didn’t find out I was pregnant with my son until I was in my third trimester. I knew who his father was. We were good friends who had a one-night stand, but then our careers took us separate ways and we lost touch. My son never heard his father’s voice during my pregnancy.

Because my son was born during a snowstorm, his adoptive parents weren’t able to get to the hospital right away, so it was just me and him for three days until the roads cleared. During those three days he hung out with me. I didn’t bond with him, in the traditional sense, because I knew he wasn’t mine. I made that decision, not because I didn’t want him, but because (at the time) I couldn’t care for him properly. I was young, alone, and far away from family.

I debated that decision with everything that I had. I talked to friends and family and told them I was giving him up for adoption. They all told me I was making the right choice. But, in my heart, I didn’t think it was the “motherly” thing to do. It wasn’t until a pastor told me that what I wanted—which was to give my son a chance at a better life with people who had been waiting for him—was the most “motherly” thing I could do for my child. Even if it meant it wasn’t with me.

I say all this to point out that my child wasn’t taken away from me. I didn’t want to give him up, but I was not in the position to care for him either. It was hard, but I also saw what that decision meant for his parents. Seven years they tried on their own to find it would never be possible. Because of my decision, they now have a son who’s a big brother to an adoptive little sister and his parents are two of the most awesome people I’ve ever met in my life. If I had to do it all again, I wouldn’t hesitate for one minute if it was for a couple like them.

Now, like I said: I may be a unique situation, but I’ve had the privilege of watching my son grow up to be a good decent man without me. And while I am privileged to have regular contact with him, I know that my biology had nothing to do with his success.

And as for God’s intent? I think he planned for me to be the surrogate for my son’s parents. Because they were as much of a Godsend to me as I was to them.

So, maybe Guy and his husband are a Godsend to the birth mother and vice versa. I certainly wouldn’t be arguing God’s intentions.

As the law of God says, “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
—Romans 13:8-10.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

You made a point about kids not bonding with their adoptive mothers. That is true, it does happen more frequently than not. But there are usually many factors surrounding that outcome, and any one of them could be true: they weren’t adopted immediately after they were born, the adoptive mother (and/or father) were never really prepared for the child (which I’ve seen first-hand), panic and fear arises in the adoptive mother when something goes wrong, education and patience are lacking, work-life is not balanced properly at the beginning, explaining to the child later in life the reasons they were adopted sufficiently didn’t occur.

There are children that don’t bond with their biological mothers for various reasons. In many cases, that leads to abuse in many forms. Is it still beneficial to the child to stay with their mother when things go horribly wrong? No. That’s even more damaging to the child. Biology, by itself, is not a solution to every child’s need.

Unfortunately, we are living in a world where there is no right answer to this. But I grew up with kids from abusive or split homes, where many were not close to their biological parents at all. Even later in life. What they lacked in their own homes they found elsewhere, and when they were able to leave the toxic environments they were raised in, they had better lives moving forward. Some of them reconciled with their parents as they became adults, but the bonding was never there to begin with. They bonded with people outside their blood or biology or DNA to get what they truly needed.

While there is a biological or medical connection between a child and their birth mother while in the womb, it does not always mean that connection stands outside of it.

If the idea of a natural family (not nuclear) was to sustain, then it needs to be: safe, nurturing, present, patient, educated, resourceful, compassionate, and full of love. The saying doesn’t go “it takes one person to raise a child.” The saying goes it takes a village. And sometimes the biology is several villages over.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

So, I’ll ask the same question to you that I posted on some other threads: what do you say to the child who lost their mom during childbirth? Were they “taken away” from their birth mother? Who fills the role in their death? What do you say to the child whose mother left them alone and abandoned? Were they “taken away” from their mother? No, so who fulfills the role in their absence?

You all are making the same one- sided point: that two gay men shouldn’t have the right to be parents because the child wouldn’t get to know or have their biological mother around. But you’re not looking at hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of cases around the world where children don’t have their mothers for a variety of reasons. And it doesn’t matter whether the absence was with intent or not.

I’ll go a little farther in my own story: no, my mother did not give birth to me with the intent of taking me away from my father. He made that decision himself when he walked away from his family. I was not taken away from either of them. But, what my dad couldn’t ( or wouldn’t) provide, many others did. So why can’t a woman who can’t conceive naturally and adopts or had a child through surrogacy fulfill that role for the child? In your argument, the child was “taken away” from their biological mother. If the biological mother made the conscience decision to give up her child for adoption, then who are you to say that the child was “taken away” from her? She obviously had her reasons that you are not privy to, but if the child can relate to a female presence that provides them the same maternal nurturing, how is that hurting them?

So what’s the real issue: that you just don’t want gay couples to have the right to a family, or just gay men? In today’s world I’d rather have two dads and incredible women in my life to fill that role than force a child to stay with someone who clearly didn’t want them or wasn’t ready for them. So, which is better? And think about the questions I posed earlier.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@eliza_renae @KennedyNation Keep in mind: children are not obsolete, either. Many women are never meant to be mothers, for various reasons. Maybe expand on your definition of “mothers”, because biological doesn’t apply all the time, anymore.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

Here’s a question for you, Nick, since you’re such an expert on “abnormal” or “damaging” behavior for a child:

What do you tell the child whose mother died in childbirth, and dad may have never remarried? Maybe the surrogate mom is a grandmother, aunt, or teacher in their lives. Are they motherless?

What do you tell the kids, who weren’t even born yet, when their fathers died on 9/11? That they are fatherless, even though uncles, brothers, pastors, or neighbors provided that role in a surrogate fashion?

You and everyone else opining in the same fashion are arguing one thing: that the child should know their mother. Here’s my argument:

How is a child, who was abandoned by their mother, supposed to get to know them if they weren’t wanted in the first place? How is that beneficial to the child?

How is a child supposed to get to know their mother if their mother is abusive or a drug addict or an alcoholic? How is that beneficial?

How is a child supposed to get to know their mother if she was killed in an accident or by someone else? How is that beneficial?

Being a mother doesn’t have to do with just blood. It means being there, present, and invested in the child’s well-being. Some “mothers” were never meant to be one. But is that the fault of the child? No. I’d rather have fifty 80-year old church ladies be my “mom” than someone who treats me like an inconvenience. The point in this whole argument is whether there is sufficient balance for a child to LEARN from. If the love, devotion, and nurturing come from one dad or two, with enough strong female presence in their lives, then the child will be just fine. Trust me. I have been a surrogate mom for many kids (some with two dads) who didn’t have their own mothers around, for various reasons. And I’ve invested time, money, and caring into them to ensure their well-being. Does that make someone like me, who is not their mother biologically, any less of a “mom” to them?

Please stop pretending that you are intimately involved or aware of every situation, person, or household to be able to opine so confidently. You aren’t.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

First of all, the trans movement has nothing to do with this conversation. That’s an entirely different shitstorm.

The issue that most people have on this thread is, in their words, “buying babies” or “trafficking babies”. I wonder how they feel about straight couples paying for adoptions or paying for surrogacies? Suddenly, it’s sacrilegious for a gay couple to want to pay for the right to have a child?

Shut the front door.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@_VoiceofAmerica No, absolutely not. Put her drunk ass in charge of our nukes and GUARANTEED she’d hit the button, thinking it was for room service so she could order another bottle of scotch, or wine, or whatever the hell she’s drinking.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@snowyxq1 Zero. I’ll vote for the mosquito flying outside my window first. It is significantly more intelligent than her.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

I used to live in VA when I was in the Navy, and although I haven’t lived there in many years, I still have my VA phone number. So, this election cycle I kept getting spam calls asking for me to vote for this…woman…and I finally answered one of their calls.

Before the guy could say anything, I said I’m a registered Republican, but if you knew that you wouldn’t be calling me. The next thing I said, completely denying him air time, was that he and his party could take my number off their call list and I ended it with a fuck off.

All of my (sane) friends still living in VA can’t believe she was elected. What a waste of air. I feel sorry for Virginians.

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

So...the last time I was on this platform, it was Twitter. In 2015. So, it's been a while. Hope everyone has been behaving themselves! (Spoiler alert: I haven't!) LOL!!!

Have a great day, y'all!!

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@ja5on1974 welcome to the world my friend!

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@D_Morgado When you had your 1st rodeo experience in NM I said you should #CowboyUp. A horse suits you...well done!😉

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@D_Morgado coffee people NEVER sound good in the morning without it. We need it to function! LMAO!!

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@NathanFillion So he's your sire now. Nice. Vampirish. Perfect for Halloween. Does he talk in an east Europe accent?

[Sammy B @Sammy_Bean_Bean]

@D_Morgado did you ask if you could TRY to get back on a horse? #cowboyUP