The Twelvers

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

So then for the occasionalist that says the only activity is the activity of God, it would follow that only God exists.

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

From Occasionalism to Pantheism?

Some philosophers have argued that the view that only God causes things implies the view that only God exists.

Their reasoning seems to be that the acts of a thing flows from the type of thing it is i.e. from the essence of the thing

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

But only non-being has no intrinsic property. And the stone is not nothing. So it does have intrinsic properties doing explanatory work, in which case it possesses activity.

[Muhammad Yasir Al-Hanafi @YasirAlHanafi]

What you are suggesting is a specific scenario. Without understanding what constitutes ‘Shirk’ and ‘worship’, discussing scenarios based on those concepts will not be fruitful. This is the same reason you focused only on a 50-second clip from over an hour and a half of discussion.

I propose: let's clarify *what Shirk and worship mean*. Within that, we can explore as many scenarios as you like.

After all, you are implying that I am defending Shirk. Therefore, it is only proper to first examine the integrals of Shirk and what is the precise *differentia* that distinguishes an act of Shirk from other acts, despite how egregious they may be.

حكم الشيء فرع عن تصوره — a principal we all accept.

By the way, I never suggested you had ‘Zionist motives’. If I appeared to suggest that, I unreservedly apologise.

Let me know if you are happy with the proposed title. 👍🏻

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

I agree that the evidences the wahabis have for their slogans can be appealing and persuasive to the laymen. However, when one goes beyond the surface level and investigates the evidences, they will without a doubt see all sorts of problems with the wahabi arguments

[Xavier @xavierjp__]

One of the things I love about the works of sheikh Muhammad ibn abd al Wahhab

And part of what makes it so simple to digest

Whether it be through reading his books or listening to lectures explaining his books

Is that they have the same formula over and over and over again

- point
- evidence

- point
- evidence

- point
- evidence

And the evidence is almost always:
1) “Allah said”
OR
2) “The messenger ﷺ said”

And the few times it isn’t either of these, it’s “such and such sahabi said” or “such and such scholar from the established scholars said” or “such and such from the tabi’een said”

Take his books, remove his name from it, hand it to one of his detractors from the people of innovation and they would look at you in amazement

“what an amazing book, all it does is provide points based on ‘Allah said’ and ‘the nabi ﷺ said’”

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

Against necessitarianism

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

If the account of limitation is correct, then it seems the only view which can satisfy it is one in which all limited beings are composed of essence and existence, where existence is the inherently unlimited principle and essence always exists with it and limits it.

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

A principle of limitation cannot exist on its own. For the essence of a principle of limitation is to do the explanatory work of limiting. To explain limitation presupposes something which isn’t inherently limited in some respect, but made limited by the principle of limitation

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

Another view is one in which limited immaterial beings are form alone. In such a case we again have a principle of limitation but nothing which it limits.

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

If someone believes that God can create an angel that has the ability to change material reality, is this shirk? What is the evidence?

All these questions are interesting and worth discussing, but seems to have not been addressed at all.

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

This whole debate has not exceeded the extremely superficial discourse of “did this Sunni scholar believe in this or not”.

The actual substantial crux of the matter has not been addressed at all.

[Adnan Rashid @MrAdnanRashid]

Over 30 active global dawah personalities have issued a joint statement on Daniel Haqiqatjou.

They disassociate from him and endorse the contents of the statement.

Among the signatories are individuals from Salafi, Ahlul Hadith, Hanafi, Maturidi persuasions.

United.

[The Twelvers @TTwelvers]

Can the act of creation be ascribed to a created being? What is the rational evidence and textual evidence for either view?

Where is the textual evidence that ascribing creation to a creature is shirk? Is such textual evidence explicit or not?