Otto Lindholm

Tech and data lawyer, attorney, photographer, musician

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@kripzzy67 @RobTheHockeyGuy I'll take that. You do have a point.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@HenryBesserwiss @RobTheHockeyGuy Nah... I would've been completely fine with that not being called a penalty. I just got curious if the call was possible under the Rulebook.

It's just hockey. Nothing serious.

Oh and I'm not a Swede.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@hoomon26 @RobTheHockeyGuy If I'm about to outskate you and you push me off my balance because you're behind the play, I have no trouble seeing that as a penalty. It might be a soft one. But as long as the refs are consistent in being soft about the plays they call, it's up to them.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@hoomon26 @RobTheHockeyGuy This was not a corner battle. Willanser was behind the play while the Finnish player was about to skates away. He shoved him of his balance, otherwise he would've lost the battle.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@RobTheHockeyGuy @hoomon26 A lot of penalties end up missed, for sure.

The question whether the call was possible under the Rulebook and whether it was necessary, are two very different questions.

I'm only looking at whether the call was possible.

Other plays and calls are not a testament to this play.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy The refs made the call.

I'm trying to figure out if the refs made a call that is not possible under the the Rulebook.

To me rule says the call is possible.

And what I get is "autistic" and "crazy mental gymnastics".

What a debate.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@hoomon26 @RobTheHockeyGuy Pushes => Impedes. No?

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy I'm just looking at what the rule says. It's up to the refs, how they want to enforce it.

To suggest that we shouldn't read the Rulebook for what it says is absurd.

Let's just leave the discretion to the refs.

It was a possible call. Was it necessary? Debatable.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy ...because he was pushed.

Again, it was soft. But the rule allows soft calls.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy The fall was a direct result of the shove. Nothing happened in between.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy No. That is not what the rule says.

Just read the rule.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy I agree with you that it wouldn't have qualified as holding. Scratch "probably" if that helps.

You're not reading the rule.

The call was soft but perfectly possible. The refs were calling soft penalties.

You're arguing it "should not be" a penalty. But the rule can be called.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy If he didn't lose balance then it probably wouldn't have counted as holding.

But he did fall off balance. As a result the shove.

A hypothetical course of events, which did not take place, is not a proof anything.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy Causality is already included in the rule's wording.

The action (the shove) literally took the balance off of the Finnish player. It impeded the player (and thus resulted in the player's progress being impeded).

The Finnish player didn't fall on their own.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy "Any action... that... impedes the progress of an opposing Player..."

The rule has both the action ("Any action") and the outcome ("impedes the progress"), as you refer to them.

Just read the rule.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@BackCzech4Check @Christ0ffer @RobTheHockeyGuy The continental (or NHL v IIHF) difference is very obvious.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy Hypothetical alternative scenarios are irrelevant.

We're looking at the play that happened. The Finnish player fell off balance as a result of the shove.

It was literally an action that impeded the other player.

Soft? Also true. But the Rulebook allows for soft calls.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy His action literally impedes the Finnish player. The player didn't lose balance on their own.

The rules penalize the action, not the outcome, exactly as you say.

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy Nope. That is not how the rule is written in the Rulebook.

The rule literally starts with "Any action...".

[Otto Lindholm @0tt0M]

@Christ0ffer @OfficialSqutzy @RobTheHockeyGuy The judges can definitely dictate how the game evolves through the 60min. But this call was nonetheless possible under the Rulebook.

Outskate the opponent and battle the with your body, not your gloves.

Willander was behind the play and decided to shove rather than skate.