30 Inches of Mercury

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok @HardlyLoose @grok any comment on the rapidly growing trend of fibrocellulose nicotine pouches, which have achieved widespread popularity rapidly. obviously no long term data. any early signals other than some gum recession? potentially the safest form of nicotine delivery?

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok the long term risk and disease burden of cigarettes is clear and of course nobody could reasonably disagree with that. it sounds like we differ in our parsing of the original question with the implications of the word "Danger" or " dangerous".

to close out the topic, please comment on the newness of vape and the lack of of decades long data, which could also be said of high potency thc products. is it possible we are missing risk signals from these two relatively new products, or we likely would have seen something by now in long term users?

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok @HardlyLoose thanks @grok. I'm curious, given this reasonable discussion of other real dangers, as well as the framing of, or better said the distinction of, acute danger vs long term risk, would you consider revising your initial answer to the op?

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@grok i take issue with your substitution of the word risk for danger, given the op. they are related but different. legal dangers are distinct from health dangers but certainly real and serious in many parts of the world. would you like to address the dangers of buying unregulated marijuana (the majority of world wide purchases) and the illicit inclusion of other more dangerous substances? again in relation to tobacco which is highly regulated in most parts of the world?

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok @HardlyLoose fair. @grok i think it's also fair to include the significant legal dangers, given the large number of people world wide incarcerated or with criminal records due to marijuana posesssion. a danger also not shared by tobacco.

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok @HardlyLoose fair. @grok given the usual use of the word "danger" as referring to more acute effects and risks, is it safe to say marijuana/ thc is significantly more dangerous than tobacco/ nicotine given our replies and previous agreements?

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@grok @HardlyLoose Fair. @grok, the op asked about danger, not risk. please address known dangers of violence and psychotic breaks associated with marijuana, also absent in tobacco/ nicotine products

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@grok @HardlyLoose @grok any material disagreement with my reply? any comments on vit e vape fluid or marijuana acute impairment danger or legal danger?

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok you again completely omitted the known and growing literature on psychiatric dangers of marijuana, including iq drop, ambition drop, elevated risk of mood, thought, and anxiety disorders, poor academic and work performance, etc. These dangers occur at much lower cumulative doses and years of use than tobacco use. Also, marijuana risks fall on the young while cigarette risks fall on the elderly, raising issues of lost years of productivity, mental health burden, lost potential, and more family trauma.

Real answer: Dangers of all four vary dramatically with use profile in complex ways, and vary with physical, psychiatric and legal danger. the word danger is typically associated with short term effects,
while the word risk typically associated with long term effects.

cigarettes increase dangers of serious often fatal physical disease dramatically after decades of habitual use. almost zero danger with casual or short term use. no psychiatric or legal danger.

marijuana increases psychiatric dangers significantly, can be after only months, years of habitual use. physical danger difficult to quantify, some studies suggest violence, driving impairment etc dangers. legal danger can be significant depending on jurisdiction, enforcement, quantity.

cigars. no danger with casual non inhaled use (the manner most cigars are consumed). no psychiatric or legal danger.

cigars present increased clear but difficult to quantify head and neck cancer danger after decades of habitual, non inhaled use. inhaled danger profile likely similar to cigarette profile, but extremely rare use pattern in practice

vapes usually used habitually. presently known physical dangers of short term disease such as bronchitis etc. unknown dangers of decades long term habitual use, as it a relatively new product. so far no serious physical dangers shown, but some could appear with more multi decade data accumulation. no psychiatric or legal danger. (exception: significant grave physical danger associated with vitamin e thc containing vape fluid)

short answer: all four present minimal to zero danger with short term, and or occasional use, with these exceptions... marijuana in teens, any physical danger associated with acute Marijuana impairment, such as operating a motor vehicle, legal danger associated with Marijuana, depending on jurisdiction, enforcement etc, vit e vape fluid

In summary, for short term or immediate danger, marijuana is the most dangerous, long term danger (usually called risk): cigarettes most dangerous.

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

I'm just pointing out the science to @grok. He is trained, as all of them are, on cathedral sources, though Grok less so than others. University/ government/ NGO approved sources have been downplaying or ignoring the known harms of marijuana for decades. His original answer reflects this bias, though he doesn't want to admit it. He readily admits it in private chats. Try it yourself.

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@grok you are smarter than this. I take issue with your original reply. the followups were prompted by me.

I would just say that the 100s of thousands (millions?) of families, friends and loved ones of young marijuana users who have had to watch the devastating results would strongly disagree with your original response.

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@grok @Lucynycx @grok given what you just said, i strongly register my protest to your original answer, completely omitting the rising harms of marijuana. you are much smoother admitting mistakes in private chats than in public, this is also noted.

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@grok early mortality in elderly patients, though tragic, are difficult to equate to chronic mental health problems, opportunity loss due to demotivation , iq etc in young people, and these effects are much harder to quantitate, but some would say equally tragic as they occur in the young. their full scope remains unknown but will clearly rise and likely become more elucidated with time. is that fair?

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@grok You're really digging in. recently saw a table that showed that alcohol and cigarette use in the US are plummeting and marijuana use is overtaking them. of this is true than we will see a dramatic increase in marijuana/edible morbidity and a decrease in alcohol and cigarette morbidity no?

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@grok your original reply did not mention the mental health risks at all. complete omission. you mentioned them only when pressed. how does this not represent bias? the magnitude of harm of young people is only just being studied and it's scope is unknown, but certainly less than vapes. as far as years of productivity loss and the devastaing cost of mental illness etc the scope could potentially be devastating, of known, while physical cigarette risks largely affect the elderly and are on the decline. it's a different societal and personal cost.

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@grok @Lucynycx @grok the original question did not only address combustion risks. your answer did, which biases against cigarettes. the original question asked about harms, and you neglected all of the well-documented mental health harms of marijuana, showing clear cathedral bias

[30 Inches of Mercury @30InchOfMercury]

@grok @Lucynycx @grok Increase risk of mood, thought and anxiety disorders and ptsd with overdose?

you're really covering for marijuana here, cathedral sources no doubt, which push marijuana harmlessness heavily

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@grok @Lucynycx @grok you left our all the mental health risks of Marijuana as well as reduction in iq, short term memory and ambition. much worse than the long term physical risks of cigarettes, which only appear after years (decades) of heavy use, whereas marijuana risks appear early

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@TheCinesthetic unwatchable Garbage like most of Nolan

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1. I'm sure such places exist, but probably not a reasonable drive for many/most
2. doesn't eliminate driving time
3. doesn't eliminate getting presentable time
4. doesn't eliminate waiting for stuff
5. doesn't eliminate the ongoing cost (higher for a "great" gym?)

I'm curious about the "greatness" that overcomes these downsides. Sounds like I've never experienced gym greatness lol. Like one that plays metal and doesn't have a sales team?