![MenendezRand's tweet photo. The Menendez Brothers’ Aunt Joan on Why They Must Be Freed: “They Were Used and Abused, and There Seems to Be No End to It”
Joan VanderMolen talks about disturbing memories and why, even though Erik and Lyle murdered her sister, she believes they’ve been victims of both their late parents and the legal system.
(One of the questions I'm asked most frequently in media interviews is why did Erik and Lyle Menendez kill their mother Kitty? In this Oct. 2024 interview, her sister - Joan VanderMolen - provides some valuable insight into the dynamics of her family. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson told the juries this in her closing argument at the end of the first trial in 1993: "Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills and Kitty was one of the guards - not one of the prisoners."
Vanity Fair - Joan VanderMolen, Kitty Menendez’s older sister, might be 92, but she doesn’t pull punches. The white-haired matriarch of the Menendez family has been a staunch and outspoken supporter of Erik and Lyle’s since 1990, when they were charged with murdering their parents with shotguns in the den of their Beverly Hills home. Now she hopes that they could be released from prison thanks to last week’s announcement by the Los Angeles district attorney, George Gascón, that he’s considering new evidence in the case.
In an exclusive interview with Vanity Fair, VanderMolen reveals intimate details of how she and her sister grew up, and while one can never truly know what goes on in another person’s mind, her revelations about their father offer the closest we may ever come to understanding why Kitty didn’t leave Jose Menendez, even though Erik and Lyle testified to years of sexual and physical abuse. The case, of course, has been the subject of renewed interest because of two Netflix releases: Ryan Murphy's scripted series and a new Menendez documentary, directed by Alejandro Hartmann.
Excerpts from VF's conversation with VanderMolen…Vanity Fair: Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I know that you’ve been through a lot.If you don’t mind my asking, can you say more about what makes you so upset?
The fact that they’re in the situation they are in. They didn’t deserve any of this. They were used and abused and there seems to be no end to it.
The DA says that he’s looking at the writ of habeas corpus that was submitted by Erik and Lyle’s attorneys. Are you hopeful that maybe there is some kind of end in sight?
Of course. I have for a long time. Since day one. They were arrested 34 years ago. That’s a long time to hold out hope. Yes. It’s not fair. I looked back at some of the footage from the trial, and after all these years it’s still shocking. That doesn’t even say how I felt when the second trial came along and there was no defense whatsoever that would be allowed. There was no trial at all. Everything their lawyer said was shut dry down. [Leslie Abramson] couldn’t get anything [admitted into evidence]. It was like the abuse never happened. It wasn’t fair at all. I don’t know how the jury reached a verdict after a trial so nuts.
Did you talk to Leslie Abramson at the time about what was happening?
I just told her the job she was doing was superb. And for her to be shot down like that. Judge [Stanley] Weisberg shot her down all the time.
What did she say? Do you remember?
No. I just told her I loved her and she told me she loved me back. That’s all. She’s a terrific lady, and she did the best she could and then some with no recognition whatsoever by the court.
When was the last time that you spoke with either Lyle or Erik?
Last week.
How are they doing?
They’re hopeful. That’s all I can say is hopeful. We all are. I could cry just thinking about all the years that have gone on, and there they are.
How often do you speak with them?
Oh, regularly. Weekly.
Their lives will be very different if they’re released…
Well, they’d have to adjust to where they’re at. It’s scary. But, you know, they didn’t plan on spending their life in prison either.
Your daughters, Diane and Kathleen, have testified about Jose’s abuse. Diane said she told Kitty that Lyle told her that Jose was touching his private parts, but Kitty didn’t believe her. Kathleen said that Jose would send the kids to their room and that nobody was allowed to go near the hallway when he was with Erik or Lyle alone.
Lyle and Erik had strict parents…. My daughter saw things she should never have had to see. The way they were treated…
Did you try to talk to Kitty about Jose and the abuse?
Kitty and I were on the phone weekly. We shared recipes and different stuff, but never about this. I never brought it up. I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere because Jose ruled the roost. He was like that.
How did she go along with it?
I don’t know. There was a lot to be gained by sticking by your man.
You mean because he was successful?
Yeah.
I’m sorry if this is difficult, but I read that your father was also an abusive man. Do you think that might have something to do with why Kitty was attracted to Jose?
I don’t know. But [our dad] tried to get fresh with both of us.
Sometimes therapists say that we’re attracted to someone who’s like an abusive parent because it feels normal to us, or because inside we believe maybe we can change them and repair a very old wound.
I don’t think that at all of either of these gentlemen—Jose or my father—if you can call them that.
So what do you think attracted Kitty to Jose?
Oh, besides the charm and the money, she had ambitions and he helped to fulfill them. She was a radio announcer in southern Illinois—she was very well-respected—and he kind of matched that for her. He probably behaved as well as he knew how while they were courting. My family wasn’t pleased when they got married. They didn’t think she knew him well enough or was accustomed to his ways.
Your dad divorced your mother. Did she ever remarry?
No, she loved my father. I don’t understand these women that can love people that are not gentlemen. But they do. It’s amazing. Kitty should have left Jose long before [the murders].The boys tried to get her to leave and they promised her they would take care of her and everything. Did you know that?
No, I didn’t. When was this?
All through their childhood when they were being mistreated. Kitty was beside herself half the time. They said that they wanted her to leave him and said they would take care of her and she just didn’t want to do that, or didn’t think she could. Maybe, I don’t know, she saw him as a livelihood. She had always intended to work on Broadway. That was her ambition in school, in college. And then he said, “You’re not gonna do that.”
Right. She was a full-time mother. So you think that Jose’s success gave her proximity to glamour, fame, fancy clothes—things like that? That she valued those things?
I don’t doubt that. But I don’t know that.
What did you see when Lyle and Erik were little?
We went to visit my dad, who lived in Texas. Kitty and I and her boys went to visit. And my dad experienced something from Erik that he’d never seen before.
What happened?
We had a table that fit all of us, and Erik simply refused to eat unless he had lemon. And my dad could not fathom what the problem was. No matter what my dad did or said it didn’t change: He had to have lemon. And it turns out that he was being assaulted by his dad, and I don’t know how to phrase it other than by being vulgar, but would cum in his mouth and make Erik swallow it.
I could cry hearing that.
I feel the same way. And to this day Erik has to have his lemon. That was so ingrained in him. He couldn’t enjoy a meal without his lemon because of the assaults. You don’t get over something like that. He still needs lemon with his meals. It’s a habit now. I don’t know how much my sister knew but when I realized what was going on, it was pretty awful. [But] you can’t react to someone [like Jose]. I mean, you can’t imagine a personality that’s that strong. The boys were both at his beck and call.
You couldn’t talk to Jose.
Nobody wanted to be there to do that. But the few times I visited and when my daughter visited, Kitty was getting more ill and nervous as the years went by. She was breaking dishes and glasses because of her frustration. My daughters experienced that in spades. Diane stayed a longer time and witnessed more of it, and she’s the one that told Kitty that Lyle’s father was abusing him. But she didn’t believe it. She took Lyle right upstairs to his dad so he could do what he wanted.
Poor Diane must have been horrified?
Still to this day. It’s affected her whole life. She loves those boys so much. It breaks my heart to even talk about it. Nothing that [Erik and Lyle] were experiencing is normal, but she did what she could. Kitty didn’t listen. It was devastating for Diane.
How old are you now, Joan?
I was born on Thanksgiving Day. [Laughs.] My mother had a dinner for a lot of people planned and I ruined the dinner.
You made trouble right out of the gate. You’re still making trouble.
I’ll do what I can to help. I wanna get that straight because there’s nothing I wouldn’t do, nothing. It’s just unreal that they’ve been in there 35 years. It’s unconscionable. The whole family feels this way. We’re just trying to hold on and do what we can to help them. Which isn’t much at this point. They’re in the hands of the law. I hope the law gets it figured out. You know, if it was their kids they’d be out of jail. During the second trial, I was just amazed at how Weisberg [ruled]. It was just ridiculous.
At what point did the family start to rally around Erik and Lyle? Was it once you all heard about the abuse?
I don’t think we ever didn’t support them. We just didn’t think it was gonna be a lifetime like this. We thought they’d have an honest trial and that the truth would come out and that’d be the end of it. But it didn’t happen.
I think some people are surprised you support them considering what happened to Kitty.
Well, that’s true. They tried so hard to get her to leave him, and this is the result. I don’t know what else to say. She was behind everything Jose did and she knew what was going on. And how could you not [do something]? It makes me sick that Erik—that anybody had to go through that.
Twenty-four members of the family support Erik and Lyle. The only one who doesn’t is your brother Milton?
Yes, and now they name a hurricane after him. That’s almost a joke, isn’t it?
It’s a good one. I’m not going to lie.
He was [in The New York Times] last year because he said that none of [the abuse] was true. And I thought, you know, You’re a real asshole. I can’t abide that. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He didn’t have a loving, caring father. He never did.
Does anyone else still talk with Milton?
He used to call me once in a while and I finally explained to him, “I can’t talk to you.” And I’m sorry. I hurt for him. (Milton died shortly after this interview was published a year ago.)
Did your dad ever treat you or Kitty that way? Was he violent with you?
Not that I’m aware of. My mother would not have allowed that. She was strong and she needed to be. She was a gentle woman, but she could be fierce if she wanted to be. She’d tell him, “Leave that woman alone,” because he tried to get fresh with me once at a picnic. I don’t know where she came from all of a sudden. She was right there with the two of us and just said, “Leave that girl alone.”
How old were you?
Probably a young teenager. I don’t remember. I know I was developing because he had his hands on my boobs.
Was he ever violent or angry with your mother?
Oh, yeah. So Kitty learned from the best, I guess. That’s the way our family was. If my father didn’t like something, usually my mother would ask him to not have any dissension at the table because it’s not good for the children’s digestion. But inevitably something would come up and he’d throw something across the room.
And then he left her, right?
He asked my mother for a divorce and she loved this man. She didn’t want a divorce. He only wanted a divorce so he could play around, and then he would come back and take her to dinner and have sex. I mean, that’s cruelty. Kitty told me once at the airport when she was going home in California that he had been doing that for 20 years, and she was disgusted by the fact that my mom allowed it. I can’t fathom that. It would have been better for us kids to leave. I don’t think she realized the impression it was giving to those of us who were still there. But she loved her family. I couldn’t have had a better mother. If only she had recognized the loophole she was living in.
Before we hang up, let’s get back to Lyle and Erik. You’ve said that you are proud of them. Is that right?
Yes. They’ve done remarkably well. You can’t find better people not just in prison but anywhere.
Thank you for spending this time with me, Joan.
Just know that I—we, the family—love Erik and Lyle. I hope our support gets them where they should be, and that’s not in prison.
Photos:
Kitty and Joan in the 1970s.
Joan VanderMolen Oct. 2024
Joan with me at my book signing for "The Menendez Murders" in Sept. 2018 at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in L.A.
Poster for "The Menendez Murders" at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood Sept. 2018
https://t.co/c1sXDiqvd0](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G4I4GL7WUAAHZei.jpg)
![MenendezRand's tweet photo. The Menendez Brothers’ Aunt Joan on Why They Must Be Freed: “They Were Used and Abused, and There Seems to Be No End to It”
Joan VanderMolen talks about disturbing memories and why, even though Erik and Lyle murdered her sister, she believes they’ve been victims of both their late parents and the legal system.
(One of the questions I'm asked most frequently in media interviews is why did Erik and Lyle Menendez kill their mother Kitty? In this Oct. 2024 interview, her sister - Joan VanderMolen - provides some valuable insight into the dynamics of her family. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson told the juries this in her closing argument at the end of the first trial in 1993: "Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills and Kitty was one of the guards - not one of the prisoners."
Vanity Fair - Joan VanderMolen, Kitty Menendez’s older sister, might be 92, but she doesn’t pull punches. The white-haired matriarch of the Menendez family has been a staunch and outspoken supporter of Erik and Lyle’s since 1990, when they were charged with murdering their parents with shotguns in the den of their Beverly Hills home. Now she hopes that they could be released from prison thanks to last week’s announcement by the Los Angeles district attorney, George Gascón, that he’s considering new evidence in the case.
In an exclusive interview with Vanity Fair, VanderMolen reveals intimate details of how she and her sister grew up, and while one can never truly know what goes on in another person’s mind, her revelations about their father offer the closest we may ever come to understanding why Kitty didn’t leave Jose Menendez, even though Erik and Lyle testified to years of sexual and physical abuse. The case, of course, has been the subject of renewed interest because of two Netflix releases: Ryan Murphy's scripted series and a new Menendez documentary, directed by Alejandro Hartmann.
Excerpts from VF's conversation with VanderMolen…Vanity Fair: Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I know that you’ve been through a lot.If you don’t mind my asking, can you say more about what makes you so upset?
The fact that they’re in the situation they are in. They didn’t deserve any of this. They were used and abused and there seems to be no end to it.
The DA says that he’s looking at the writ of habeas corpus that was submitted by Erik and Lyle’s attorneys. Are you hopeful that maybe there is some kind of end in sight?
Of course. I have for a long time. Since day one. They were arrested 34 years ago. That’s a long time to hold out hope. Yes. It’s not fair. I looked back at some of the footage from the trial, and after all these years it’s still shocking. That doesn’t even say how I felt when the second trial came along and there was no defense whatsoever that would be allowed. There was no trial at all. Everything their lawyer said was shut dry down. [Leslie Abramson] couldn’t get anything [admitted into evidence]. It was like the abuse never happened. It wasn’t fair at all. I don’t know how the jury reached a verdict after a trial so nuts.
Did you talk to Leslie Abramson at the time about what was happening?
I just told her the job she was doing was superb. And for her to be shot down like that. Judge [Stanley] Weisberg shot her down all the time.
What did she say? Do you remember?
No. I just told her I loved her and she told me she loved me back. That’s all. She’s a terrific lady, and she did the best she could and then some with no recognition whatsoever by the court.
When was the last time that you spoke with either Lyle or Erik?
Last week.
How are they doing?
They’re hopeful. That’s all I can say is hopeful. We all are. I could cry just thinking about all the years that have gone on, and there they are.
How often do you speak with them?
Oh, regularly. Weekly.
Their lives will be very different if they’re released…
Well, they’d have to adjust to where they’re at. It’s scary. But, you know, they didn’t plan on spending their life in prison either.
Your daughters, Diane and Kathleen, have testified about Jose’s abuse. Diane said she told Kitty that Lyle told her that Jose was touching his private parts, but Kitty didn’t believe her. Kathleen said that Jose would send the kids to their room and that nobody was allowed to go near the hallway when he was with Erik or Lyle alone.
Lyle and Erik had strict parents…. My daughter saw things she should never have had to see. The way they were treated…
Did you try to talk to Kitty about Jose and the abuse?
Kitty and I were on the phone weekly. We shared recipes and different stuff, but never about this. I never brought it up. I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere because Jose ruled the roost. He was like that.
How did she go along with it?
I don’t know. There was a lot to be gained by sticking by your man.
You mean because he was successful?
Yeah.
I’m sorry if this is difficult, but I read that your father was also an abusive man. Do you think that might have something to do with why Kitty was attracted to Jose?
I don’t know. But [our dad] tried to get fresh with both of us.
Sometimes therapists say that we’re attracted to someone who’s like an abusive parent because it feels normal to us, or because inside we believe maybe we can change them and repair a very old wound.
I don’t think that at all of either of these gentlemen—Jose or my father—if you can call them that.
So what do you think attracted Kitty to Jose?
Oh, besides the charm and the money, she had ambitions and he helped to fulfill them. She was a radio announcer in southern Illinois—she was very well-respected—and he kind of matched that for her. He probably behaved as well as he knew how while they were courting. My family wasn’t pleased when they got married. They didn’t think she knew him well enough or was accustomed to his ways.
Your dad divorced your mother. Did she ever remarry?
No, she loved my father. I don’t understand these women that can love people that are not gentlemen. But they do. It’s amazing. Kitty should have left Jose long before [the murders].The boys tried to get her to leave and they promised her they would take care of her and everything. Did you know that?
No, I didn’t. When was this?
All through their childhood when they were being mistreated. Kitty was beside herself half the time. They said that they wanted her to leave him and said they would take care of her and she just didn’t want to do that, or didn’t think she could. Maybe, I don’t know, she saw him as a livelihood. She had always intended to work on Broadway. That was her ambition in school, in college. And then he said, “You’re not gonna do that.”
Right. She was a full-time mother. So you think that Jose’s success gave her proximity to glamour, fame, fancy clothes—things like that? That she valued those things?
I don’t doubt that. But I don’t know that.
What did you see when Lyle and Erik were little?
We went to visit my dad, who lived in Texas. Kitty and I and her boys went to visit. And my dad experienced something from Erik that he’d never seen before.
What happened?
We had a table that fit all of us, and Erik simply refused to eat unless he had lemon. And my dad could not fathom what the problem was. No matter what my dad did or said it didn’t change: He had to have lemon. And it turns out that he was being assaulted by his dad, and I don’t know how to phrase it other than by being vulgar, but would cum in his mouth and make Erik swallow it.
I could cry hearing that.
I feel the same way. And to this day Erik has to have his lemon. That was so ingrained in him. He couldn’t enjoy a meal without his lemon because of the assaults. You don’t get over something like that. He still needs lemon with his meals. It’s a habit now. I don’t know how much my sister knew but when I realized what was going on, it was pretty awful. [But] you can’t react to someone [like Jose]. I mean, you can’t imagine a personality that’s that strong. The boys were both at his beck and call.
You couldn’t talk to Jose.
Nobody wanted to be there to do that. But the few times I visited and when my daughter visited, Kitty was getting more ill and nervous as the years went by. She was breaking dishes and glasses because of her frustration. My daughters experienced that in spades. Diane stayed a longer time and witnessed more of it, and she’s the one that told Kitty that Lyle’s father was abusing him. But she didn’t believe it. She took Lyle right upstairs to his dad so he could do what he wanted.
Poor Diane must have been horrified?
Still to this day. It’s affected her whole life. She loves those boys so much. It breaks my heart to even talk about it. Nothing that [Erik and Lyle] were experiencing is normal, but she did what she could. Kitty didn’t listen. It was devastating for Diane.
How old are you now, Joan?
I was born on Thanksgiving Day. [Laughs.] My mother had a dinner for a lot of people planned and I ruined the dinner.
You made trouble right out of the gate. You’re still making trouble.
I’ll do what I can to help. I wanna get that straight because there’s nothing I wouldn’t do, nothing. It’s just unreal that they’ve been in there 35 years. It’s unconscionable. The whole family feels this way. We’re just trying to hold on and do what we can to help them. Which isn’t much at this point. They’re in the hands of the law. I hope the law gets it figured out. You know, if it was their kids they’d be out of jail. During the second trial, I was just amazed at how Weisberg [ruled]. It was just ridiculous.
At what point did the family start to rally around Erik and Lyle? Was it once you all heard about the abuse?
I don’t think we ever didn’t support them. We just didn’t think it was gonna be a lifetime like this. We thought they’d have an honest trial and that the truth would come out and that’d be the end of it. But it didn’t happen.
I think some people are surprised you support them considering what happened to Kitty.
Well, that’s true. They tried so hard to get her to leave him, and this is the result. I don’t know what else to say. She was behind everything Jose did and she knew what was going on. And how could you not [do something]? It makes me sick that Erik—that anybody had to go through that.
Twenty-four members of the family support Erik and Lyle. The only one who doesn’t is your brother Milton?
Yes, and now they name a hurricane after him. That’s almost a joke, isn’t it?
It’s a good one. I’m not going to lie.
He was [in The New York Times] last year because he said that none of [the abuse] was true. And I thought, you know, You’re a real asshole. I can’t abide that. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He didn’t have a loving, caring father. He never did.
Does anyone else still talk with Milton?
He used to call me once in a while and I finally explained to him, “I can’t talk to you.” And I’m sorry. I hurt for him. (Milton died shortly after this interview was published a year ago.)
Did your dad ever treat you or Kitty that way? Was he violent with you?
Not that I’m aware of. My mother would not have allowed that. She was strong and she needed to be. She was a gentle woman, but she could be fierce if she wanted to be. She’d tell him, “Leave that woman alone,” because he tried to get fresh with me once at a picnic. I don’t know where she came from all of a sudden. She was right there with the two of us and just said, “Leave that girl alone.”
How old were you?
Probably a young teenager. I don’t remember. I know I was developing because he had his hands on my boobs.
Was he ever violent or angry with your mother?
Oh, yeah. So Kitty learned from the best, I guess. That’s the way our family was. If my father didn’t like something, usually my mother would ask him to not have any dissension at the table because it’s not good for the children’s digestion. But inevitably something would come up and he’d throw something across the room.
And then he left her, right?
He asked my mother for a divorce and she loved this man. She didn’t want a divorce. He only wanted a divorce so he could play around, and then he would come back and take her to dinner and have sex. I mean, that’s cruelty. Kitty told me once at the airport when she was going home in California that he had been doing that for 20 years, and she was disgusted by the fact that my mom allowed it. I can’t fathom that. It would have been better for us kids to leave. I don’t think she realized the impression it was giving to those of us who were still there. But she loved her family. I couldn’t have had a better mother. If only she had recognized the loophole she was living in.
Before we hang up, let’s get back to Lyle and Erik. You’ve said that you are proud of them. Is that right?
Yes. They’ve done remarkably well. You can’t find better people not just in prison but anywhere.
Thank you for spending this time with me, Joan.
Just know that I—we, the family—love Erik and Lyle. I hope our support gets them where they should be, and that’s not in prison.
Photos:
Kitty and Joan in the 1970s.
Joan VanderMolen Oct. 2024
Joan with me at my book signing for "The Menendez Murders" in Sept. 2018 at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in L.A.
Poster for "The Menendez Murders" at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood Sept. 2018
https://t.co/c1sXDiqvd0](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G4I4B2xWkAAFCDM.jpg)
![MenendezRand's tweet photo. The Menendez Brothers’ Aunt Joan on Why They Must Be Freed: “They Were Used and Abused, and There Seems to Be No End to It”
Joan VanderMolen talks about disturbing memories and why, even though Erik and Lyle murdered her sister, she believes they’ve been victims of both their late parents and the legal system.
(One of the questions I'm asked most frequently in media interviews is why did Erik and Lyle Menendez kill their mother Kitty? In this Oct. 2024 interview, her sister - Joan VanderMolen - provides some valuable insight into the dynamics of her family. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson told the juries this in her closing argument at the end of the first trial in 1993: "Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills and Kitty was one of the guards - not one of the prisoners."
Vanity Fair - Joan VanderMolen, Kitty Menendez’s older sister, might be 92, but she doesn’t pull punches. The white-haired matriarch of the Menendez family has been a staunch and outspoken supporter of Erik and Lyle’s since 1990, when they were charged with murdering their parents with shotguns in the den of their Beverly Hills home. Now she hopes that they could be released from prison thanks to last week’s announcement by the Los Angeles district attorney, George Gascón, that he’s considering new evidence in the case.
In an exclusive interview with Vanity Fair, VanderMolen reveals intimate details of how she and her sister grew up, and while one can never truly know what goes on in another person’s mind, her revelations about their father offer the closest we may ever come to understanding why Kitty didn’t leave Jose Menendez, even though Erik and Lyle testified to years of sexual and physical abuse. The case, of course, has been the subject of renewed interest because of two Netflix releases: Ryan Murphy's scripted series and a new Menendez documentary, directed by Alejandro Hartmann.
Excerpts from VF's conversation with VanderMolen…Vanity Fair: Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I know that you’ve been through a lot.If you don’t mind my asking, can you say more about what makes you so upset?
The fact that they’re in the situation they are in. They didn’t deserve any of this. They were used and abused and there seems to be no end to it.
The DA says that he’s looking at the writ of habeas corpus that was submitted by Erik and Lyle’s attorneys. Are you hopeful that maybe there is some kind of end in sight?
Of course. I have for a long time. Since day one. They were arrested 34 years ago. That’s a long time to hold out hope. Yes. It’s not fair. I looked back at some of the footage from the trial, and after all these years it’s still shocking. That doesn’t even say how I felt when the second trial came along and there was no defense whatsoever that would be allowed. There was no trial at all. Everything their lawyer said was shut dry down. [Leslie Abramson] couldn’t get anything [admitted into evidence]. It was like the abuse never happened. It wasn’t fair at all. I don’t know how the jury reached a verdict after a trial so nuts.
Did you talk to Leslie Abramson at the time about what was happening?
I just told her the job she was doing was superb. And for her to be shot down like that. Judge [Stanley] Weisberg shot her down all the time.
What did she say? Do you remember?
No. I just told her I loved her and she told me she loved me back. That’s all. She’s a terrific lady, and she did the best she could and then some with no recognition whatsoever by the court.
When was the last time that you spoke with either Lyle or Erik?
Last week.
How are they doing?
They’re hopeful. That’s all I can say is hopeful. We all are. I could cry just thinking about all the years that have gone on, and there they are.
How often do you speak with them?
Oh, regularly. Weekly.
Their lives will be very different if they’re released…
Well, they’d have to adjust to where they’re at. It’s scary. But, you know, they didn’t plan on spending their life in prison either.
Your daughters, Diane and Kathleen, have testified about Jose’s abuse. Diane said she told Kitty that Lyle told her that Jose was touching his private parts, but Kitty didn’t believe her. Kathleen said that Jose would send the kids to their room and that nobody was allowed to go near the hallway when he was with Erik or Lyle alone.
Lyle and Erik had strict parents…. My daughter saw things she should never have had to see. The way they were treated…
Did you try to talk to Kitty about Jose and the abuse?
Kitty and I were on the phone weekly. We shared recipes and different stuff, but never about this. I never brought it up. I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere because Jose ruled the roost. He was like that.
How did she go along with it?
I don’t know. There was a lot to be gained by sticking by your man.
You mean because he was successful?
Yeah.
I’m sorry if this is difficult, but I read that your father was also an abusive man. Do you think that might have something to do with why Kitty was attracted to Jose?
I don’t know. But [our dad] tried to get fresh with both of us.
Sometimes therapists say that we’re attracted to someone who’s like an abusive parent because it feels normal to us, or because inside we believe maybe we can change them and repair a very old wound.
I don’t think that at all of either of these gentlemen—Jose or my father—if you can call them that.
So what do you think attracted Kitty to Jose?
Oh, besides the charm and the money, she had ambitions and he helped to fulfill them. She was a radio announcer in southern Illinois—she was very well-respected—and he kind of matched that for her. He probably behaved as well as he knew how while they were courting. My family wasn’t pleased when they got married. They didn’t think she knew him well enough or was accustomed to his ways.
Your dad divorced your mother. Did she ever remarry?
No, she loved my father. I don’t understand these women that can love people that are not gentlemen. But they do. It’s amazing. Kitty should have left Jose long before [the murders].The boys tried to get her to leave and they promised her they would take care of her and everything. Did you know that?
No, I didn’t. When was this?
All through their childhood when they were being mistreated. Kitty was beside herself half the time. They said that they wanted her to leave him and said they would take care of her and she just didn’t want to do that, or didn’t think she could. Maybe, I don’t know, she saw him as a livelihood. She had always intended to work on Broadway. That was her ambition in school, in college. And then he said, “You’re not gonna do that.”
Right. She was a full-time mother. So you think that Jose’s success gave her proximity to glamour, fame, fancy clothes—things like that? That she valued those things?
I don’t doubt that. But I don’t know that.
What did you see when Lyle and Erik were little?
We went to visit my dad, who lived in Texas. Kitty and I and her boys went to visit. And my dad experienced something from Erik that he’d never seen before.
What happened?
We had a table that fit all of us, and Erik simply refused to eat unless he had lemon. And my dad could not fathom what the problem was. No matter what my dad did or said it didn’t change: He had to have lemon. And it turns out that he was being assaulted by his dad, and I don’t know how to phrase it other than by being vulgar, but would cum in his mouth and make Erik swallow it.
I could cry hearing that.
I feel the same way. And to this day Erik has to have his lemon. That was so ingrained in him. He couldn’t enjoy a meal without his lemon because of the assaults. You don’t get over something like that. He still needs lemon with his meals. It’s a habit now. I don’t know how much my sister knew but when I realized what was going on, it was pretty awful. [But] you can’t react to someone [like Jose]. I mean, you can’t imagine a personality that’s that strong. The boys were both at his beck and call.
You couldn’t talk to Jose.
Nobody wanted to be there to do that. But the few times I visited and when my daughter visited, Kitty was getting more ill and nervous as the years went by. She was breaking dishes and glasses because of her frustration. My daughters experienced that in spades. Diane stayed a longer time and witnessed more of it, and she’s the one that told Kitty that Lyle’s father was abusing him. But she didn’t believe it. She took Lyle right upstairs to his dad so he could do what he wanted.
Poor Diane must have been horrified?
Still to this day. It’s affected her whole life. She loves those boys so much. It breaks my heart to even talk about it. Nothing that [Erik and Lyle] were experiencing is normal, but she did what she could. Kitty didn’t listen. It was devastating for Diane.
How old are you now, Joan?
I was born on Thanksgiving Day. [Laughs.] My mother had a dinner for a lot of people planned and I ruined the dinner.
You made trouble right out of the gate. You’re still making trouble.
I’ll do what I can to help. I wanna get that straight because there’s nothing I wouldn’t do, nothing. It’s just unreal that they’ve been in there 35 years. It’s unconscionable. The whole family feels this way. We’re just trying to hold on and do what we can to help them. Which isn’t much at this point. They’re in the hands of the law. I hope the law gets it figured out. You know, if it was their kids they’d be out of jail. During the second trial, I was just amazed at how Weisberg [ruled]. It was just ridiculous.
At what point did the family start to rally around Erik and Lyle? Was it once you all heard about the abuse?
I don’t think we ever didn’t support them. We just didn’t think it was gonna be a lifetime like this. We thought they’d have an honest trial and that the truth would come out and that’d be the end of it. But it didn’t happen.
I think some people are surprised you support them considering what happened to Kitty.
Well, that’s true. They tried so hard to get her to leave him, and this is the result. I don’t know what else to say. She was behind everything Jose did and she knew what was going on. And how could you not [do something]? It makes me sick that Erik—that anybody had to go through that.
Twenty-four members of the family support Erik and Lyle. The only one who doesn’t is your brother Milton?
Yes, and now they name a hurricane after him. That’s almost a joke, isn’t it?
It’s a good one. I’m not going to lie.
He was [in The New York Times] last year because he said that none of [the abuse] was true. And I thought, you know, You’re a real asshole. I can’t abide that. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He didn’t have a loving, caring father. He never did.
Does anyone else still talk with Milton?
He used to call me once in a while and I finally explained to him, “I can’t talk to you.” And I’m sorry. I hurt for him. (Milton died shortly after this interview was published a year ago.)
Did your dad ever treat you or Kitty that way? Was he violent with you?
Not that I’m aware of. My mother would not have allowed that. She was strong and she needed to be. She was a gentle woman, but she could be fierce if she wanted to be. She’d tell him, “Leave that woman alone,” because he tried to get fresh with me once at a picnic. I don’t know where she came from all of a sudden. She was right there with the two of us and just said, “Leave that girl alone.”
How old were you?
Probably a young teenager. I don’t remember. I know I was developing because he had his hands on my boobs.
Was he ever violent or angry with your mother?
Oh, yeah. So Kitty learned from the best, I guess. That’s the way our family was. If my father didn’t like something, usually my mother would ask him to not have any dissension at the table because it’s not good for the children’s digestion. But inevitably something would come up and he’d throw something across the room.
And then he left her, right?
He asked my mother for a divorce and she loved this man. She didn’t want a divorce. He only wanted a divorce so he could play around, and then he would come back and take her to dinner and have sex. I mean, that’s cruelty. Kitty told me once at the airport when she was going home in California that he had been doing that for 20 years, and she was disgusted by the fact that my mom allowed it. I can’t fathom that. It would have been better for us kids to leave. I don’t think she realized the impression it was giving to those of us who were still there. But she loved her family. I couldn’t have had a better mother. If only she had recognized the loophole she was living in.
Before we hang up, let’s get back to Lyle and Erik. You’ve said that you are proud of them. Is that right?
Yes. They’ve done remarkably well. You can’t find better people not just in prison but anywhere.
Thank you for spending this time with me, Joan.
Just know that I—we, the family—love Erik and Lyle. I hope our support gets them where they should be, and that’s not in prison.
Photos:
Kitty and Joan in the 1970s.
Joan VanderMolen Oct. 2024
Joan with me at my book signing for "The Menendez Murders" in Sept. 2018 at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in L.A.
Poster for "The Menendez Murders" at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood Sept. 2018
https://t.co/c1sXDiqvd0](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G4I368pWYAAlt6_.jpg)
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Lyle Menendez’s journey is a reminder that resilience, growth, and hope can endure through even the hardest challenges. Keep believing in brighter days ahead.🩵
#JusticeForErikAndLyle #MenendezLegacy #Positivity #TheMenendezBrothers
I'm not a costar shipper but I'm also not blind
hope she’s having a good day 💖
#FactOrMyth 🔎 The claim that the second trial jury had only two options—first-degree murder or acquittal—is a myth. Jurors had multiple choices: for José, first or second-degree murder, manslaughter, or not guilty; for Kitty, first or second-degree or not guilty.
Mr. Bridgerton and his sisters.
he is not a bridgerton anymore, he took his wife’s name. it’s featherington now, but count him in on all the fun.
FEATHERINGTON HUSBANDS HAVING TIME OF THEIR LIFE TOGETHER
colin “my wife” bridgerton is a velcro husband.
You can learn the FACTS about the #MenendezBrothers' case vs. the FICTION presented in the @netflix series "Monsters" in the Updated Edition of "The Menendez Murders."
@BenBellaBooks
#JusticeForErikandLyle
#JusticeforRoy
https://t.co/LO2Os4u66f
https://t.co/4jOYJ7ac6V
My word…
The #MenendezBrothers' were arrested 36 years ago next month. It's time to set them free. They've been punished enough - regardless of whether you believe them.
The story isn't over yet.
The question was always why.
Read: The Updated Edition of "The Menendez Murders"...plus a dozen foreign editions including Brazil 🇧🇷 and France 🇫🇷 where the book is on the bestseller lists.
Coming soon: New translated editions in Russia, the Czech Republic, and - finally - in SPANISH!
@benbellabooks
Watch: "Menendez + Menudo Boys Betrayed"
Now streaming on @Peacock in the U.S., @disneyplusbr in Brazil and 50 other countries.
The whole world is reading and watching!
#JusticeForErikandLyle
#JusticeforRoy
https://t.co/6v81WmHNaC
#POLIN: wish list
Warm felicitations are extended to the new parents, Mr. and Mrs. Colin Bridgerton.
the way he blows into her face then nuzzles her nose before kissing her. their bestfriendism 😭❤️
OLHA ELE! 🥰💙
novas fotinhos do erik foram disponibilizados no site da fundação HWOP (helping without prejudice).
#JusticeForErikAndLyle
🔗: https://t.co/k0ZbNBwNbJ
In 1994, the Chicago Tribune criticized the miniseries “Menendez: A Killing in Beverly Hills” for distorting key facts of the case and adding dramatization that could mislead the public.
📰 Chicago Tribune – April 2, 1994
#JusticeForErikAndLyle
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#JusticeForErikAndLyle
The Menendez Brothers’ Aunt Joan on Why They Must Be Freed: “They Were Used and Abused, and There Seems to Be No End to It”
Joan VanderMolen talks about disturbing memories and why, even though Erik and Lyle murdered her sister, she believes they’ve been victims of both their late parents and the legal system.
(One of the questions I'm asked most frequently in media interviews is why did Erik and Lyle Menendez kill their mother Kitty? In this Oct. 2024 interview, her sister - Joan VanderMolen - provides some valuable insight into the dynamics of her family. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson told the juries this in her closing argument at the end of the first trial in 1993: "Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills and Kitty was one of the guards - not one of the prisoners."
Vanity Fair - Joan VanderMolen, Kitty Menendez’s older sister, might be 92, but she doesn’t pull punches. The white-haired matriarch of the Menendez family has been a staunch and outspoken supporter of Erik and Lyle’s since 1990, when they were charged with murdering their parents with shotguns in the den of their Beverly Hills home. Now she hopes that they could be released from prison thanks to last week’s announcement by the Los Angeles district attorney, George Gascón, that he’s considering new evidence in the case.
In an exclusive interview with Vanity Fair, VanderMolen reveals intimate details of how she and her sister grew up, and while one can never truly know what goes on in another person’s mind, her revelations about their father offer the closest we may ever come to understanding why Kitty didn’t leave Jose Menendez, even though Erik and Lyle testified to years of sexual and physical abuse. The case, of course, has been the subject of renewed interest because of two Netflix releases: Ryan Murphy's scripted series and a new Menendez documentary, directed by Alejandro Hartmann.
Excerpts from VF's conversation with VanderMolen…Vanity Fair: Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I know that you’ve been through a lot.If you don’t mind my asking, can you say more about what makes you so upset?
The fact that they’re in the situation they are in. They didn’t deserve any of this. They were used and abused and there seems to be no end to it.
The DA says that he’s looking at the writ of habeas corpus that was submitted by Erik and Lyle’s attorneys. Are you hopeful that maybe there is some kind of end in sight?
Of course. I have for a long time. Since day one. They were arrested 34 years ago. That’s a long time to hold out hope. Yes. It’s not fair. I looked back at some of the footage from the trial, and after all these years it’s still shocking. That doesn’t even say how I felt when the second trial came along and there was no defense whatsoever that would be allowed. There was no trial at all. Everything their lawyer said was shut dry down. [Leslie Abramson] couldn’t get anything [admitted into evidence]. It was like the abuse never happened. It wasn’t fair at all. I don’t know how the jury reached a verdict after a trial so nuts.
Did you talk to Leslie Abramson at the time about what was happening?
I just told her the job she was doing was superb. And for her to be shot down like that. Judge [Stanley] Weisberg shot her down all the time.
What did she say? Do you remember?
No. I just told her I loved her and she told me she loved me back. That’s all. She’s a terrific lady, and she did the best she could and then some with no recognition whatsoever by the court.
When was the last time that you spoke with either Lyle or Erik?
Last week.
How are they doing?
They’re hopeful. That’s all I can say is hopeful. We all are. I could cry just thinking about all the years that have gone on, and there they are.
How often do you speak with them?
Oh, regularly. Weekly.
Their lives will be very different if they’re released…
Well, they’d have to adjust to where they’re at. It’s scary. But, you know, they didn’t plan on spending their life in prison either.
Your daughters, Diane and Kathleen, have testified about Jose’s abuse. Diane said she told Kitty that Lyle told her that Jose was touching his private parts, but Kitty didn’t believe her. Kathleen said that Jose would send the kids to their room and that nobody was allowed to go near the hallway when he was with Erik or Lyle alone.
Lyle and Erik had strict parents…. My daughter saw things she should never have had to see. The way they were treated…
Did you try to talk to Kitty about Jose and the abuse?
Kitty and I were on the phone weekly. We shared recipes and different stuff, but never about this. I never brought it up. I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere because Jose ruled the roost. He was like that.
How did she go along with it?
I don’t know. There was a lot to be gained by sticking by your man.
You mean because he was successful?
Yeah.
I’m sorry if this is difficult, but I read that your father was also an abusive man. Do you think that might have something to do with why Kitty was attracted to Jose?
I don’t know. But [our dad] tried to get fresh with both of us.
Sometimes therapists say that we’re attracted to someone who’s like an abusive parent because it feels normal to us, or because inside we believe maybe we can change them and repair a very old wound.
I don’t think that at all of either of these gentlemen—Jose or my father—if you can call them that.
So what do you think attracted Kitty to Jose?
Oh, besides the charm and the money, she had ambitions and he helped to fulfill them. She was a radio announcer in southern Illinois—she was very well-respected—and he kind of matched that for her. He probably behaved as well as he knew how while they were courting. My family wasn’t pleased when they got married. They didn’t think she knew him well enough or was accustomed to his ways.
Your dad divorced your mother. Did she ever remarry?
No, she loved my father. I don’t understand these women that can love people that are not gentlemen. But they do. It’s amazing. Kitty should have left Jose long before [the murders].The boys tried to get her to leave and they promised her they would take care of her and everything. Did you know that?
No, I didn’t. When was this?
All through their childhood when they were being mistreated. Kitty was beside herself half the time. They said that they wanted her to leave him and said they would take care of her and she just didn’t want to do that, or didn’t think she could. Maybe, I don’t know, she saw him as a livelihood. She had always intended to work on Broadway. That was her ambition in school, in college. And then he said, “You’re not gonna do that.”
Right. She was a full-time mother. So you think that Jose’s success gave her proximity to glamour, fame, fancy clothes—things like that? That she valued those things?
I don’t doubt that. But I don’t know that.
What did you see when Lyle and Erik were little?
We went to visit my dad, who lived in Texas. Kitty and I and her boys went to visit. And my dad experienced something from Erik that he’d never seen before.
What happened?
We had a table that fit all of us, and Erik simply refused to eat unless he had lemon. And my dad could not fathom what the problem was. No matter what my dad did or said it didn’t change: He had to have lemon. And it turns out that he was being assaulted by his dad, and I don’t know how to phrase it other than by being vulgar, but would cum in his mouth and make Erik swallow it.
I could cry hearing that.
I feel the same way. And to this day Erik has to have his lemon. That was so ingrained in him. He couldn’t enjoy a meal without his lemon because of the assaults. You don’t get over something like that. He still needs lemon with his meals. It’s a habit now. I don’t know how much my sister knew but when I realized what was going on, it was pretty awful. [But] you can’t react to someone [like Jose]. I mean, you can’t imagine a personality that’s that strong. The boys were both at his beck and call.
You couldn’t talk to Jose.
Nobody wanted to be there to do that. But the few times I visited and when my daughter visited, Kitty was getting more ill and nervous as the years went by. She was breaking dishes and glasses because of her frustration. My daughters experienced that in spades. Diane stayed a longer time and witnessed more of it, and she’s the one that told Kitty that Lyle’s father was abusing him. But she didn’t believe it. She took Lyle right upstairs to his dad so he could do what he wanted.
Poor Diane must have been horrified?
Still to this day. It’s affected her whole life. She loves those boys so much. It breaks my heart to even talk about it. Nothing that [Erik and Lyle] were experiencing is normal, but she did what she could. Kitty didn’t listen. It was devastating for Diane.
How old are you now, Joan?
I was born on Thanksgiving Day. [Laughs.] My mother had a dinner for a lot of people planned and I ruined the dinner.
You made trouble right out of the gate. You’re still making trouble.
I’ll do what I can to help. I wanna get that straight because there’s nothing I wouldn’t do, nothing. It’s just unreal that they’ve been in there 35 years. It’s unconscionable. The whole family feels this way. We’re just trying to hold on and do what we can to help them. Which isn’t much at this point. They’re in the hands of the law. I hope the law gets it figured out. You know, if it was their kids they’d be out of jail. During the second trial, I was just amazed at how Weisberg [ruled]. It was just ridiculous.
At what point did the family start to rally around Erik and Lyle? Was it once you all heard about the abuse?
I don’t think we ever didn’t support them. We just didn’t think it was gonna be a lifetime like this. We thought they’d have an honest trial and that the truth would come out and that’d be the end of it. But it didn’t happen.
I think some people are surprised you support them considering what happened to Kitty.
Well, that’s true. They tried so hard to get her to leave him, and this is the result. I don’t know what else to say. She was behind everything Jose did and she knew what was going on. And how could you not [do something]? It makes me sick that Erik—that anybody had to go through that.
Twenty-four members of the family support Erik and Lyle. The only one who doesn’t is your brother Milton?
Yes, and now they name a hurricane after him. That’s almost a joke, isn’t it?
It’s a good one. I’m not going to lie.
He was [in The New York Times] last year because he said that none of [the abuse] was true. And I thought, you know, You’re a real asshole. I can’t abide that. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He didn’t have a loving, caring father. He never did.
Does anyone else still talk with Milton?
He used to call me once in a while and I finally explained to him, “I can’t talk to you.” And I’m sorry. I hurt for him. (Milton died shortly after this interview was published a year ago.)
Did your dad ever treat you or Kitty that way? Was he violent with you?
Not that I’m aware of. My mother would not have allowed that. She was strong and she needed to be. She was a gentle woman, but she could be fierce if she wanted to be. She’d tell him, “Leave that woman alone,” because he tried to get fresh with me once at a picnic. I don’t know where she came from all of a sudden. She was right there with the two of us and just said, “Leave that girl alone.”
How old were you?
Probably a young teenager. I don’t remember. I know I was developing because he had his hands on my boobs.
Was he ever violent or angry with your mother?
Oh, yeah. So Kitty learned from the best, I guess. That’s the way our family was. If my father didn’t like something, usually my mother would ask him to not have any dissension at the table because it’s not good for the children’s digestion. But inevitably something would come up and he’d throw something across the room.
And then he left her, right?
He asked my mother for a divorce and she loved this man. She didn’t want a divorce. He only wanted a divorce so he could play around, and then he would come back and take her to dinner and have sex. I mean, that’s cruelty. Kitty told me once at the airport when she was going home in California that he had been doing that for 20 years, and she was disgusted by the fact that my mom allowed it. I can’t fathom that. It would have been better for us kids to leave. I don’t think she realized the impression it was giving to those of us who were still there. But she loved her family. I couldn’t have had a better mother. If only she had recognized the loophole she was living in.
Before we hang up, let’s get back to Lyle and Erik. You’ve said that you are proud of them. Is that right?
Yes. They’ve done remarkably well. You can’t find better people not just in prison but anywhere.
Thank you for spending this time with me, Joan.
Just know that I—we, the family—love Erik and Lyle. I hope our support gets them where they should be, and that’s not in prison.
Photos:
Kitty and Joan in the 1970s.
Joan VanderMolen Oct. 2024
Joan with me at my book signing for "The Menendez Murders" in Sept. 2018 at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in L.A.
Poster for "The Menendez Murders" at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood Sept. 2018
https://t.co/c1sXDiqvd0
![MenendezRand's tweet photo. The Menendez Brothers’ Aunt Joan on Why They Must Be Freed: “They Were Used and Abused, and There Seems to Be No End to It”
Joan VanderMolen talks about disturbing memories and why, even though Erik and Lyle murdered her sister, she believes they’ve been victims of both their late parents and the legal system.
(One of the questions I'm asked most frequently in media interviews is why did Erik and Lyle Menendez kill their mother Kitty? In this Oct. 2024 interview, her sister - Joan VanderMolen - provides some valuable insight into the dynamics of her family. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson told the juries this in her closing argument at the end of the first trial in 1993: "Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills and Kitty was one of the guards - not one of the prisoners."
Vanity Fair - Joan VanderMolen, Kitty Menendez’s older sister, might be 92, but she doesn’t pull punches. The white-haired matriarch of the Menendez family has been a staunch and outspoken supporter of Erik and Lyle’s since 1990, when they were charged with murdering their parents with shotguns in the den of their Beverly Hills home. Now she hopes that they could be released from prison thanks to last week’s announcement by the Los Angeles district attorney, George Gascón, that he’s considering new evidence in the case.
In an exclusive interview with Vanity Fair, VanderMolen reveals intimate details of how she and her sister grew up, and while one can never truly know what goes on in another person’s mind, her revelations about their father offer the closest we may ever come to understanding why Kitty didn’t leave Jose Menendez, even though Erik and Lyle testified to years of sexual and physical abuse. The case, of course, has been the subject of renewed interest because of two Netflix releases: Ryan Murphy's scripted series and a new Menendez documentary, directed by Alejandro Hartmann.
Excerpts from VF's conversation with VanderMolen…Vanity Fair: Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I know that you’ve been through a lot.If you don’t mind my asking, can you say more about what makes you so upset?
The fact that they’re in the situation they are in. They didn’t deserve any of this. They were used and abused and there seems to be no end to it.
The DA says that he’s looking at the writ of habeas corpus that was submitted by Erik and Lyle’s attorneys. Are you hopeful that maybe there is some kind of end in sight?
Of course. I have for a long time. Since day one. They were arrested 34 years ago. That’s a long time to hold out hope. Yes. It’s not fair. I looked back at some of the footage from the trial, and after all these years it’s still shocking. That doesn’t even say how I felt when the second trial came along and there was no defense whatsoever that would be allowed. There was no trial at all. Everything their lawyer said was shut dry down. [Leslie Abramson] couldn’t get anything [admitted into evidence]. It was like the abuse never happened. It wasn’t fair at all. I don’t know how the jury reached a verdict after a trial so nuts.
Did you talk to Leslie Abramson at the time about what was happening?
I just told her the job she was doing was superb. And for her to be shot down like that. Judge [Stanley] Weisberg shot her down all the time.
What did she say? Do you remember?
No. I just told her I loved her and she told me she loved me back. That’s all. She’s a terrific lady, and she did the best she could and then some with no recognition whatsoever by the court.
When was the last time that you spoke with either Lyle or Erik?
Last week.
How are they doing?
They’re hopeful. That’s all I can say is hopeful. We all are. I could cry just thinking about all the years that have gone on, and there they are.
How often do you speak with them?
Oh, regularly. Weekly.
Their lives will be very different if they’re released…
Well, they’d have to adjust to where they’re at. It’s scary. But, you know, they didn’t plan on spending their life in prison either.
Your daughters, Diane and Kathleen, have testified about Jose’s abuse. Diane said she told Kitty that Lyle told her that Jose was touching his private parts, but Kitty didn’t believe her. Kathleen said that Jose would send the kids to their room and that nobody was allowed to go near the hallway when he was with Erik or Lyle alone.
Lyle and Erik had strict parents…. My daughter saw things she should never have had to see. The way they were treated…
Did you try to talk to Kitty about Jose and the abuse?
Kitty and I were on the phone weekly. We shared recipes and different stuff, but never about this. I never brought it up. I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere because Jose ruled the roost. He was like that.
How did she go along with it?
I don’t know. There was a lot to be gained by sticking by your man.
You mean because he was successful?
Yeah.
I’m sorry if this is difficult, but I read that your father was also an abusive man. Do you think that might have something to do with why Kitty was attracted to Jose?
I don’t know. But [our dad] tried to get fresh with both of us.
Sometimes therapists say that we’re attracted to someone who’s like an abusive parent because it feels normal to us, or because inside we believe maybe we can change them and repair a very old wound.
I don’t think that at all of either of these gentlemen—Jose or my father—if you can call them that.
So what do you think attracted Kitty to Jose?
Oh, besides the charm and the money, she had ambitions and he helped to fulfill them. She was a radio announcer in southern Illinois—she was very well-respected—and he kind of matched that for her. He probably behaved as well as he knew how while they were courting. My family wasn’t pleased when they got married. They didn’t think she knew him well enough or was accustomed to his ways.
Your dad divorced your mother. Did she ever remarry?
No, she loved my father. I don’t understand these women that can love people that are not gentlemen. But they do. It’s amazing. Kitty should have left Jose long before [the murders].The boys tried to get her to leave and they promised her they would take care of her and everything. Did you know that?
No, I didn’t. When was this?
All through their childhood when they were being mistreated. Kitty was beside herself half the time. They said that they wanted her to leave him and said they would take care of her and she just didn’t want to do that, or didn’t think she could. Maybe, I don’t know, she saw him as a livelihood. She had always intended to work on Broadway. That was her ambition in school, in college. And then he said, “You’re not gonna do that.”
Right. She was a full-time mother. So you think that Jose’s success gave her proximity to glamour, fame, fancy clothes—things like that? That she valued those things?
I don’t doubt that. But I don’t know that.
What did you see when Lyle and Erik were little?
We went to visit my dad, who lived in Texas. Kitty and I and her boys went to visit. And my dad experienced something from Erik that he’d never seen before.
What happened?
We had a table that fit all of us, and Erik simply refused to eat unless he had lemon. And my dad could not fathom what the problem was. No matter what my dad did or said it didn’t change: He had to have lemon. And it turns out that he was being assaulted by his dad, and I don’t know how to phrase it other than by being vulgar, but would cum in his mouth and make Erik swallow it.
I could cry hearing that.
I feel the same way. And to this day Erik has to have his lemon. That was so ingrained in him. He couldn’t enjoy a meal without his lemon because of the assaults. You don’t get over something like that. He still needs lemon with his meals. It’s a habit now. I don’t know how much my sister knew but when I realized what was going on, it was pretty awful. [But] you can’t react to someone [like Jose]. I mean, you can’t imagine a personality that’s that strong. The boys were both at his beck and call.
You couldn’t talk to Jose.
Nobody wanted to be there to do that. But the few times I visited and when my daughter visited, Kitty was getting more ill and nervous as the years went by. She was breaking dishes and glasses because of her frustration. My daughters experienced that in spades. Diane stayed a longer time and witnessed more of it, and she’s the one that told Kitty that Lyle’s father was abusing him. But she didn’t believe it. She took Lyle right upstairs to his dad so he could do what he wanted.
Poor Diane must have been horrified?
Still to this day. It’s affected her whole life. She loves those boys so much. It breaks my heart to even talk about it. Nothing that [Erik and Lyle] were experiencing is normal, but she did what she could. Kitty didn’t listen. It was devastating for Diane.
How old are you now, Joan?
I was born on Thanksgiving Day. [Laughs.] My mother had a dinner for a lot of people planned and I ruined the dinner.
You made trouble right out of the gate. You’re still making trouble.
I’ll do what I can to help. I wanna get that straight because there’s nothing I wouldn’t do, nothing. It’s just unreal that they’ve been in there 35 years. It’s unconscionable. The whole family feels this way. We’re just trying to hold on and do what we can to help them. Which isn’t much at this point. They’re in the hands of the law. I hope the law gets it figured out. You know, if it was their kids they’d be out of jail. During the second trial, I was just amazed at how Weisberg [ruled]. It was just ridiculous.
At what point did the family start to rally around Erik and Lyle? Was it once you all heard about the abuse?
I don’t think we ever didn’t support them. We just didn’t think it was gonna be a lifetime like this. We thought they’d have an honest trial and that the truth would come out and that’d be the end of it. But it didn’t happen.
I think some people are surprised you support them considering what happened to Kitty.
Well, that’s true. They tried so hard to get her to leave him, and this is the result. I don’t know what else to say. She was behind everything Jose did and she knew what was going on. And how could you not [do something]? It makes me sick that Erik—that anybody had to go through that.
Twenty-four members of the family support Erik and Lyle. The only one who doesn’t is your brother Milton?
Yes, and now they name a hurricane after him. That’s almost a joke, isn’t it?
It’s a good one. I’m not going to lie.
He was [in The New York Times] last year because he said that none of [the abuse] was true. And I thought, you know, You’re a real asshole. I can’t abide that. And it makes no sense whatsoever. He didn’t have a loving, caring father. He never did.
Does anyone else still talk with Milton?
He used to call me once in a while and I finally explained to him, “I can’t talk to you.” And I’m sorry. I hurt for him. (Milton died shortly after this interview was published a year ago.)
Did your dad ever treat you or Kitty that way? Was he violent with you?
Not that I’m aware of. My mother would not have allowed that. She was strong and she needed to be. She was a gentle woman, but she could be fierce if she wanted to be. She’d tell him, “Leave that woman alone,” because he tried to get fresh with me once at a picnic. I don’t know where she came from all of a sudden. She was right there with the two of us and just said, “Leave that girl alone.”
How old were you?
Probably a young teenager. I don’t remember. I know I was developing because he had his hands on my boobs.
Was he ever violent or angry with your mother?
Oh, yeah. So Kitty learned from the best, I guess. That’s the way our family was. If my father didn’t like something, usually my mother would ask him to not have any dissension at the table because it’s not good for the children’s digestion. But inevitably something would come up and he’d throw something across the room.
And then he left her, right?
He asked my mother for a divorce and she loved this man. She didn’t want a divorce. He only wanted a divorce so he could play around, and then he would come back and take her to dinner and have sex. I mean, that’s cruelty. Kitty told me once at the airport when she was going home in California that he had been doing that for 20 years, and she was disgusted by the fact that my mom allowed it. I can’t fathom that. It would have been better for us kids to leave. I don’t think she realized the impression it was giving to those of us who were still there. But she loved her family. I couldn’t have had a better mother. If only she had recognized the loophole she was living in.
Before we hang up, let’s get back to Lyle and Erik. You’ve said that you are proud of them. Is that right?
Yes. They’ve done remarkably well. You can’t find better people not just in prison but anywhere.
Thank you for spending this time with me, Joan.
Just know that I—we, the family—love Erik and Lyle. I hope our support gets them where they should be, and that’s not in prison.
Photos:
Kitty and Joan in the 1970s.
Joan VanderMolen Oct. 2024
Joan with me at my book signing for "The Menendez Murders" in Sept. 2018 at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in L.A.
Poster for "The Menendez Murders" at @BookSoup on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood Sept. 2018
https://t.co/c1sXDiqvd0](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G4I4LgYXwAA_t7q.jpg)
On April 17, 1996, Leslie Abramson said, "The good thing is that they are such extraordinary human beings that they will find ways to be productive. The jurors said that too; they expected both of them to find ways to contribute to society."
#JusticeForErikAndLyle
“eu espero que o senhor, lyle menendez esteja orgulhoso de suas realizações na prisão”. foi assim que a advogada de joan vandermolen, maya emig concluiu sua declaração final na audiência de liberdade condicional do lyle.
#JusticeForErikAndLyle 🥹🩵
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