Adam

holy shit was that handle not taken

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 i'm not the one who insisted someone ruling differently than me in a niche, uncommon scenario wasn't "really playing" that was the OP

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 no? i use those skills where they're appropriate, i.e. there is a chance of failure? which is 99% of the time

i walked in to a discussion of someone saying shirking an rp roll is stupid and "abandoning the game" and insisting anyone doing so ever "isn't really playing"

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 for the record, i don't think your dc 5 idea is a bad one for a situation where a character is possible (but not likely) to not agree with the PC, that just makes sense yes

i'm talking when it literally makes absolutely zero sense for the npc to not take a pc's word

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 yeah, and convincing someone of something they already believe is true isn't a feat of persuasion? so why would i make them roll it? that's literally exactly what i'm saying?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 would you make a wizard roll to lift their spellbook because if they didn't have to make even easy checks into rolls, what would be the point of strength/athletics? or is that a really silly situation because you wouldn't let said wizard kick a door off the hinges?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 the point of social skills are specifically for situations where it's hard? a bard is gonna have a much easier time lying to someone suspicious or persuading someone who is on the fence than a barbarian because of said skills/cha

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 the argument isnt "you should always let your players skip rolls" its "if a player is asking to do something they would for sure be able to do, why ask a roll?"

are you strength checking fighters to lift their own weapons? i mean they could lift it bad and throw out their back

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 yeah and you as the dm can decide that sure, but it isn't "bad dming" for someone else to allow the situation as described in OP to happen? again, i wouldnt make a PC roll charisma to convince an npc of something obvious?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@Ifurita1 @Nerdcognito sure if that's your preference, go play that game! i'm sure its really cool, genuinely

but this was a game of 2024 5e i don't know what to tell you

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 this isn't comparable in the slightest, you're making a false equivalence, i know how much damage their spells do exactly because i can look at their character sheet, that isnt how a conversation works

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 similarly, i wouldnt make a player roll damage to kill a 1 hp rat if they upcast a magic missile and launched all its darts at said rat, (unless for vibes/emphasis on how hard they obliterated said rat, i guess)

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 not comparable in the slightest? where does it end? where you say it does, you're the dm and are the arbiter of rules and their interpretation, its incredibly easy to say winning an argument doesn't always need a roll but killing a strong enemy with a spell does

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 also don't know why you decided to be an ass about it all of a sudden i haven't said or done anything insulting to you?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 this won't always apply, though it wont always be something like lying to a guard

the post is specifying saying the exact right thing perfect to a situation

if the dm literally cant think of a reason a pc wouldn't be believed, and there is no out like you describe, why roll?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@Ifurita1 @Nerdcognito if the npc is the type to doubt it and may just not buy any yarn spun or argument made then yeah obviously you make them roll but that's obviously very dependent on character and story context

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@Ifurita1 @Nerdcognito sure but that wont apply to every situation

the character in the CR example was trying to make a convincing argument to his own grandmother and properly read what the character needed to hear

would be incredibly weird to go "she doesn't buy it because...she just doesn't"

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@OriginalDrBongo @RPhalamy @DoigSwift if a player character correctly solved a dungeon puzzle and you then asked for an int check "to even the stats of character and player" and then told them no they didnt figure it out if they rolled poorly theyd be pretty weird, no?

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@OriginalDrBongo @RPhalamy @DoigSwift inherently physical stats are easier to quantify but no i would not make a raging barbarian strength/athletics check to lift something clearly in the character's carrying capacity (which IS a definded stat you can find)

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@JamieCharlesEl1 @RPhalamy ok they have a plus 3 to persuasion and roll a 1, which will happen 1 in 20 times

"as you go to make that impassioned speech you bite your tongue and dont get it out" or some such justification feels incredibly dumb and deflating

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@Nerdcognito the dice are chance, not everything is up to chance

similarly i wouldn't make a player roll for something impossible (lying to an npc's face about info they know for sure is wrong wouldn't prompt deception, for example)

[Adam @A_Good_Handle]

@Nerdcognito if a character says the exact correct thing an npc would need to hear to believe them literally why would i make them roll

i wouldn't ask for a strength check to rip a normal piece of paper, or a history check for a character to recall lore the player already knows by heart