@farmingandJesus Yup. It's been my experience that @DefiantBaptist has precious little to say that's actually worth taking the time to hear. Better to just hit the mute button and let him blather on, so you can invest yourself in more worthwhile things.
I have just finished reading Justice Clarence Thomas's 91-page dissent in the Supreme Court’s ruling striking down Trump’s birthright citizenship order.
It's incredible.
Here's everything you need to know: 🧵
🚨 JUST IN: Stephen Miller says it PERFECTLY after the Supreme Court upholds birthright citizenship for endless illegal aliens
“One of the most destructive and outrageous decisions in the long history of the Supreme Court.”
“American citizenship is not the birthright of the world.”
“It belongs only and solely to Americans. No provision of the Constitution can be read to require our national self-obliteration.”
🇺🇸💯
Congress MUST STEP IN!
No evangelical would argue that the Bible is clear on every point. This is a strawman, and you're not actually helping your case by knocking it down. As an evangelical, I still see no reason I should think the Catholic magisterium any more competent that a Spirit-indwelt believer to make pronouncements about the meaning of these difficult subjects. May make you feel more secure to think that it can. But I see no objective reason to think it any more qualified than a non-Catholic who thoroughly invests himself in the study of Scripture.
You make a good point about the contrast between Israel and the Gentiles in 11-25. Paul writes in 11, "By their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous." Does this mean that all Gentiles will be saved? Obviously not. But if by Gentiles we can mean only a portion of the Gentiles, then by Israel we can mean only a portion of Israel.
We see this explicitly in 9:6, where he writes, "They are not all Israel who are descended from Israel." We have two senses of Israel here. We have "the children of the flesh" (the secular nation) and "the children of the promise" (the true Israel who are actually God's people and will, without exception, be saved). Those Jews who have been broken off and who currently reject God but whom God knows He will eventually graft back in are a part of the latter group, not the secular nation.
Again, I see no biblical reason to treat the modern nation of Israel specially. I have no problem with the U.S. allying with them and supporting them, given that they represent Western values and that they attempt to conduct themselves morally. But the secular nation of Israel today is no more God's people than those of ancient Israel who followed after foreign gods and passed their children through the flame to appease them. They certainly have no part in the "all Israel" that Paul says God will save. Only those individual Jews who turn to Christ have a part in God's people.
Question is, who is the "they" of this verse. I take the "they" here to refer to Jews who at that time were unbelieving (temporarily hardened and thus temporarily enemies) but who were nonetheless a part of the true Israel of God's people, whom God would eventually soften and draw to faith (i.e. 30-31). They are a part of the "all Israel" of verse 26. Those Jews who are in the fleshly lineage of Abraham, though referenced as Israel nominally, were never a part of the true Israel, and will not be saved.
I'm a little suspicious of your claim about "all end times prophecy". I'd be careful about relying on all-encompassing generalizations like this, which have the potential to allow us to import whatever we want to believe about this or that subject rather than actually dealing with the text. I'm not saying that's what you're doing necessarily, but it's something to be mindful of.
The Bible should be required reading in schools merely for the fact that one cannot be culturally or historically literate without it. Western society is built on biblical history. The Quran holds no such distinction. Thus even a secular person who should want to read the Bible in order to be educated. No one is suggesting teaching the Bible as God's Word. That certainly would be going to far. But everyone should be familiar with its high points.
The problem I see with your analysis is that this remnant of the national Israel is not "all Israel". If we take the word "all" here seriously, then however we identify Israel, we understand everyone within that group without exception. Were we to extend "all Israel" to include anyone who has ever been a fleshly descendant of Abraham, most of whom rejected God, we'd have to speculate that they'll be in heaven, despite their rejection of God and apart from the Gospel. This position undermines the importance of both faith and the Gospel in salvation. Alternatively, if we say that only a remnant of the fleshly lineage of Abraham comes to faith and that "all Israel" refers to this remnant, this is not remotely all of Israel, and the statement "all Israel will be saved" must be watered down.
But if we understand that "they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel" (Rom. 9:6), we recognize two senses of the word Israel in a single verse: the remnant who actually believes and the nation of Israel according to the flesh. The only way that we can take Paul seriously when he says that ALL Israel will be saved is to understand that he has in mind those who believe. And we know that every man and woman throughout history, whether before Christ or after, if he or she has faith, will be saved, without exception. Trying to force "Israel" in this context to mean Abraham's fleshly descendants or some fraction thereof doesn't work.
Islam's moral ceiling is fixed. It was set 1,400 years ago, by Muhammad and the Qur’an.
You can’t go higher than Muhammad. He’s the limit. The ceiling.
Muhammad married a child, took slaves, ordered executions, waged wars, lied, raped, hated, and stole.
So how can anyone say those things are wrong if the man who did them is still your highest example?
That’s why Islam doesn’t change, not because Muslims don’t want it to, but because they’re not allowed to imagine anything better than what’s already been given.
The West, shaped by centuries of Judeo-Christian moral struggle, leaves space to climb. It admits mistakes. It reforms. It questions. It separates power from holiness.
Islam doesn’t.
That’s why it doesn’t evolve, and why, when it enters a modern society, it doesn’t integrate. It collides.
Because a faith that locks morality in the 7th century can’t live peacefully in a world that keeps growing.
As I understand things, the modern-day, secular Israel has no more special place before God than those Jews in the Old Testament who rejected God. Those who reject and harden themselves towards God in the OT God judges and destroys, despite their being in the lineage of Abraham. Why then should we think that the visible, modern-day nation of Israel deserves special treatment on account of their being descended from Abraham?
Also, consider what you've asked here. If God has TEMPORARILY hardened a particular individual's heart, that implies that this person will eventually repent and come to faith, meaning that he is a part of the true, invisible Israel. If this hardening is not temporary, then it's permanent, and those so hardened are not a part of the true Israel. I'd argue then that the Israel that God temporarily hardens is composed of those who God knows will eventually believe but who are presently resistant to Him. They are all without exception a part of the true Israel, and that's why God can say that in the end all Israel will be saved. Those Jews temporarily hardened will all eventually come to faith.
@Xtopher_Uzo These verses definitely mention popes, if of course you read popes into the verse first and then go back and read the verses. If you don't read them in beforehand, then they don't mention popes at all. Funny how that works.
I think you can say something similar about Scripture. The Bible isn't a book that you read and are then done with. Rather, the deeper you go, the wider it gets. To me, this is a clear indication that it is something more than merely a human work. This is God's Word. And this is what one would expect of God's Word.