bubben

forbes 30 under 30, archetypal trickster, cultivating mass

[bubben @Bubben15]

@TaymiFawaid You wouldnt apply this verdict on someone seeking their needs fulfilled by someone alive and present right

This only applies to requests to the unseen?

[Drake Maye Lover @drakemayeloverr]

Shit just got serious

[Carlos @SomeKirbyFan]

i see toadsworth roped you into this too

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak After perusing through ibn katheer, I don't understand the argument

The fact that the ayat was revealed, proves he pbuh cannot accompany who he wants just like that, and the Sahaba understood this intuitively, which makes the talab regarding something only Allah can do.

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak If he Pbuh needs to do shafa', by logical neccessity he can't do what he pleases with it, which makes it Shirk to seek it directly according to the lazim of your position, just like rizq and such.

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak I understand your point, but respectfully akhi, I don't feel it answers the question fully.

I wouldnt need your dua if I asked you for a glass of water nor would I need to increase sujood, if companionship in jannah was not من خصاءص الربوبية then dua would not be neccessary.

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak If it was in his capacity why would he tell him to increase his sujood? It wouldnt make any difference since he could theoretically accompany whomever he wants?

Also, why are we assuming the Sahabi was promised Jannah?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak If he pbuh can accompany whom he wishes, why would he need to make dua for it?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Visting the anbiyah is already known to be accessible to everyone, but companionship isn't

And if the Prophet can accompany anyone, why is he asking him for dua, since he can do it on his own? Its one or the other no?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak I don't follow? Companionship in Jannah is something only Allah can give

52:21

وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱتَّبَعَتۡهُمۡ ذُرِّيَّتُهُم بِإِيمَٰنٍ أَلۡحَقۡنَا بِهِمۡ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمۡ وَمَآ أَلَتۡنَٰهُم مِّنۡ عَمَلِهِم مِّن شَيۡءٖۚ كُلُّ ٱمۡرِيِٕۭ بِمَا كَسَبَ رَهِينٞ

*ألحقنا*

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Why would the Qareena matter if the action is Shirk inherently?

The argument makes sense if you wanna argue for takfeer upon dhahir, but not about the action inherently.

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak But you're accepting that asking for companionship intending dua is not Shirk in it of itself? Otherwise indicators wouldnt matter as it would be shirk inherently?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak I understand, but there being multiple riwayahs, doesnt contradict the wording in Sahih Muslim.

Also if what was intended was the Prophet visting him, why would he ask him to increase his sujood?

And even as such, asking for companionship is implicitly asking for Jannah itself

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak But this wording is something only Allah can do, and its not shirk

And many people explain their istaghatha through this, its a known reality that majaz al aqli is intended when they say Ya Fulan give me X i.e Ya Fulan ask Allah for me for X.

Is Hukm passed without tafseel?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Very interesting read, but as he mentioned this wasnt the position of MiaW, which I had assumed you were representing, this is very YQ/HatimAlAwni

But Im curious as to why distance to AlQabr, Yulazimu Shirk RBYH/A&S, when the person may intend an Angel to carry the request?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Im curious, how could there be ikhtilaf, when theoretically one would have to takfeer those that consider it not Shirk if one does consider it Shirk?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Why does this not apply to Sahib al Qabr? If he takes the well known position they can hear, and asks them for something that they're capable of doing, like Dua then why is it Ibaadah/Shirk?

[bubben @Bubben15]

@AlLubak Ive seen it in full, and I geniunely don't understand why he considers asking sahib al qabr for dua to not be shirk, yet if you ask for the item directly intending dua, its not shirk (MJZ Aqli)

I.e if I ask for rizq, intending dua for rizq

This seems to undermine MiaW's Dawah