@stavridisj@NATO I'm not sure NATO is going anywhere soon, but one can dream. The sooner it joins the Soviet Union, its singular purpose for existing in the first place, the safer we'll all be.
@Microinteracti1 It went exactly the way Trump would have liked.
If you think he dunked on Trump, took him down a peg or hurt his standing even a little bit with the only audience Trump cares about in any way shape or form, you're dramatically misreading TrumpWorld.
@Makro_no@Microinteracti1@RuneMikal Wow, you totally exposed him there. Now that we know 67 years old, father of two, married for 40 years Minister Stoltenberg no longer sees the world exactly the same way he did as a carefree 25 years old student, it's clear his entire life was a lie.
Good catch!
@grok@Glenn_Diesen "The practical outcome for readers can overlap when any system funnels info into a narrow frame: less exposure to dissenting views, regardless of intent."
I rest my case.
If the consensus is so narrow they all say and sound exactly the same, in terms of the value of the information for readers, how is that, in practical terms, any different from official state media who only writes the narrow consensus that the state allows, shaped by official sources, official briefings and state norms?
I'm referring explicitly to the practical outcome. In theory the difference is clear, "democratic" media ostensibly doesn't get its talking points from the state, nor is it obliged to follow them, but if in practice, for whatever reason, they only write the "narrow consensus" that just so happen to reproduce exactly, with virtually no dissent, the narrow framing pushed by their states that serve the interests of those states, how is that any different?
@grok@Glenn_Diesen RT is Russian media, Global Times is Chinese media. What, if anything, does it suggest that you needed to reach for Russian and Chinese media to find examples of dissenting takes that weren't buried in obscure western publications or academic circles?
There is a significant difference, though. "9/11 attacks" or "gulf war" are largely value-neutral, largely objective descriptions. One could be for or against the gulf war, but nobody serious would deny there was a war happening.
The standard framing for the Ukraine war, across dozens of outlets in multiple countries, is not simply standard descriptions, but loaded descriptions that carry implicit or even explicit opinions and/or value judgements, such as "full-scale invasion", "unprovoked invasion", "illegal invasion".
I don't disagree that this doesn't mean top-down coordination, but isn't it at least fair or even advisable for readers to wonder if they're getting the full story when every single place they read the news tell the same story using the very same words, phrases and value-judgements?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect free media in democratic countries who ostensibly strive to be reliable, accurate source of news and information for readers to at least not sound like they're all reading from the same script?
Isn't the "free", "independent" press in liberal democracies supposed to be, well, free and independent to provide their own coverage, with their own takes of major events?
What are the odds dozens, hundreds of "free and independent" media outlets across multiple countries would all, independently of each other, report on a major event such as this war not only in the exact same way and present readers the exact same takes, "facts" and conclusions, but even use the very same standard phrases to describe it?
@HillValleyForum What exactly would change if China was "more democratic and free"? Japan was a model democracy and loyal U.S ally with a constitution literally written by Washington, and the second they got too big for their britches America took them down.
Wait, we've gone from "Democracies are better" to "dictatorships are extremely efficient, but bad at freedom. Democracies are ineffective, slow, gridlocked governments, but that is a price worth paying for the freedom to complain about the government"?
Not sure that's the solid pro-democracy, anti-dictatorship argument you think it is.
@juan_moment@RnaudBertrand 100%. That law looks uttely insane. I'm really hoping France's parliament will let me be proud of it a little while longer and vote this monstrosity down.
I'm all for tuning out the usual European foreign policy hypocrisy, but you seem to be ignoring the tiny little detail that gulf monarchies can't "stand again tyranny" considering they're, by that definition, tyrannies themselves. They can certainly stand against Iran and for themselves, but certainly not against tyranny.
And they know it, which is probably why the usual European spiel of standing against tyrants was never part of their discourse.
One doesn't diminish the other. Nations aren't angels. Societies are messy. History, culture, pride, nationalism, customs, politics, etc, sometimes they elevate a nation to incredible heights, other times they sink a nation to the depths of depravity. Often at the same time.
Many countries commited countless historical crimes. Not many are willing to look themselves in the mirror and own up to it like France just did. That it passed without a single no vote is all the more remarkable. That a towering historical figure like Victor Hugo wrote that he hoped for such a day makes it even more special, as reactions across France and China show.
We shouldn't fall for the trap of dismissing the good as meaningless because there's still a lot of bad. That leads nowhere good.
I'm proud of what France just did, and I'm not even French.
The EU is so happy to be rid of OrbΓ‘n, they're still enjoying that high and trying not to think of the fact OrbΓ‘n's Ukraine and Brussels rhetoric were in fact very popular in Hungary, Zelensky is one of the most hated politicians in the country, Magyar is a former ally who believes in, and campaigned on, a "better Orbanism", far from a rejection of Orbanism.
What does that mean in practice? That voters rejected OrbΓ‘n's corruption, stagnated economy, lack of growth, employment,and opportunities, inflation.
OrbΓ‘n's gamble that he could antagonize the EU every step of the way for no discernible benefit for Hungary and the people would blame Brussels and not him for locking Hungary out of roughly β¬20 billion in EU funds also seems to have backfired. That money is a very big deal for a country that desperately needs it. How big of a deal? Roughly 10% of Hungary's β¬200 billion GDP, or half the government's 40-45 billion budget.
Hungarian voters absolutely DID NOT reject most things the EU hated about OrbΓ‘n, such as his lack of support for Ukraine, his insistence on buying the cheapest available (meaning Russian) energy, willingness to maintain good ties and normalize relations with Russia as fast as possible, populist, borderline xenophobic Immigration policy, or any number of other populist policies that appeal to the public and irk Hungary.
We know all that for a fact. How can we know? Because that's EXACTLY what Magyar campaigned on ("better populism" as he put it), he simply dressed in more reasonable-sounding, less theatrically aggressive rhetoric.
I don't doubt Magyar is genuinely more sympathetic to the E.U and more willing to work with the Commission than OrbΓ‘n was (he also campaigned on a "modern, european Hungary"), but I suspect the E.U is seriously underestimating the political constraints he'll face as well as how similar he is to OrbΓ‘n on key issues.
Time will tell.
Apparently this is just the politics you need to have to get elected in Hungary.
But will he still have these politics tomorrow, or will he deliver what the people want w/o the corruption.