Chris Heddles

Maths and physics teacher, amateur coder. Always on the lookout for new ways to help our students learn.

Being decent humans shouldn't be political ... if only

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@RockChartrand OK, let's try "pure capitalism as described by its supporters imagine it has never been tried"

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand 2. The NHS model of the UK where the government directly runs the entire system, including hiring all the medical staff. This gives avoid many inefficiencies from duplication and administration. The Brits have traditionally been happy with and supportive of their NHS.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand There are two main ways to structure public healthcare:

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand 1. The "Medicare for All" model proposed in the US where the government acts as a monopoly insurer but service providers remain private. As a central purchaser, the government has the data, expertise and leverage to negotiate (including on price)

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand You're asking me to defend a position I never took.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Most of the western world has what you describe as "communist" healthcare systems but they get far better outcomes for far lower cost.

Seems like the data disagrees with what you "just know" about the efficiency of public systems Vs private markets for healthcare.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Even if private hospitals competed in a purely private market, patients would have no way to evaluate the quality of medical care on offer. All they could do is guess based on what they *can* see.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand When did I call profit/loss "evil"?

I explained earlier why food is different to healthcare, but it still needs some central guardrails because it's an essential:
- honestly/accuracy in labels
- minimum safety standards
- provision for those who can't afford market prices

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand They competed, but most "customers" weren't able to evaluate their choices. This is why radium water and other "medicines" were popular despite their negative effects. Competition only helps when customers can make informed decisions (and not just based on price)

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Price is only useful if people can competantly evaluate multiple options and choose between them. This is almost never true for healthcare.

How would you see a competitive ambulance "market" operating? Not insurance, the actual ambulance rides.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand By that definition, the US military and police forces are also communist.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand As an essential, many societies do/did centralise food (bread) to ensure everybody got enough of it. The key differences between food and healthcare are:
- it's not so urgent at point of need
- multiple genuinely competing vendors
- most people know enough to compare options

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Of course it's paid for by taxation (MMT theories notwithstanding) but the point of $0 at point of delivery is that there is no price signal to influence "amount purchased" as there is on a traditional price/demand graph.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Why do you think I'd be a defender of Communism (let alone the "communist" countries that you cite)?

The original discussion was about universal healthcare systems in capitalist Sweden and similar countries.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand Unlike consumption goods, people don't use healthcare just because of price. Even here in Australia where most people can see a GP for $0 out of pocket, they still only go when they're sick, not just because it's "free"

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand The general public has no performance data and most lack the expertise to make sense of it anyway. This is why private hospitals compete using features that patients use as proxies for actual healthcare, such as private rooms, complementary stuffed toys and artwork on the walls.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand If you can't see the difference between a healthcare system and toothpaste then this duscussion is doomed.

[Chris Heddles @ChrisHeddles]

@JosephPeel7680 @RockChartrand It's not a "lack of knowing the price" problem, it's a "they won't sell to Cuba" problem.