As a non-believer, I always found the Bible to be a hopelessly incoherent mess
After spending the last 18 months seriously studying it and having hundreds of conversations with Christians I'm still a non-believer
But, at long last, the Bible itself finally makes sense
Here's the principle that changed everything for me
The Glory Imperative
Simply put, the premise is this:
God’s supreme priority is the magnification of His own glory — to the exclusion of everything else. Human beings are merely a practical necessity in order for His attributes to be fully realized
This principle makes the pattern of events throughout the Bible not only understandable but also logically coherent
Under the Glory Imperative, the full scope of God can only be realized in a broken and fallen world — one where wrath, jealousy and vengeance can be displayed alongside “love”, grace and mercy. Having “fine-tuned” the universe to support life, God also created the specific conditions necessary for “sin” to be introduced through Man’s “fall”
He then populates that world with weak, helpless, incompetent beings since even a somewhat capable creation would be far less likely to stand in awe of Him or remain perpetually dependent
Every blessing, every judgment, every miracle and every silence serves the same singular purpose: to magnify the name of God in an eternal loop
The Glory Imperative assigns no moral judgment to this. It is merely a framework built to make sense of the available information
@ihorace@TheExBeliever To think at what level would be pertinent
We would have to demonstrate that the creatures are being created out of "love" and not another motive (glorification, amusement, etc.)
@ihorace@TheExBeliever I think the similarity is covered in the angels example
The type of specimen created would have a lot to do with the reason He is creating them in the first place
@ihorace@TheExBeliever Minimal competence would be quite a few steps above "without me, you can do nothing"
Communication is also typically two-way so our hypothetical deity might pursue some form of that as well?
@RRT5ON1996@ion_eyes It is not easily verified but rather hotly contested
"Trust" means "believe" which is largely involuntary
You yourself said the faith must be given to you by a third party, I'm open to receiving it so what's next?
That's fair but the chasm still warrants addressing
A fully realized, almost perfect human will still be light years away from the creator as well as the angels
For our hypothetical deity, I would suggest the creatures made "in His image" should be somewhat closer to angels in terms of their potential upside
Using the Christian God as an example, angels have specific advantages that human beings do not (intellect, strength, proximity, power, etc.)
Human by contrast are weak, stupid and incompetent so much so that our creator boasts we can "do nothing" of our own accord
The chasm in abilities is massive and IMO severely undercuts the notion of a genuine relationship being the goal
@SolaSixMillion While I disagree strongly that God "loves" human beings, I do believe that He merely discards those that are of no use to Him rather than torment them
He shows no interest in torture anywhere in the canon
@Thevine_ntwk I found out recently that this is FAR closer to the truth than even I expected
Arizona Christian University just put out a study that blew my mind about how few Christians are actually walking the talk
I knew the number was low but not THIS low
The inheritance refers to a tangible asset that can be easily verified and is subject to certain legal frameworks
The death of Jesus fails this test because of the elements of 'belief" and faith
Also, if faith is given by a third party, than is it logically incoherent to punish those who do not receive it since God Himself is in control of that process
@JoeInfluencer The story of Job gives us clear evidence of what happens when His glory and our well-being conflict
Humanity is merely a mirror to serve His purpose