@MMetaphysician@paleochristcon@Acts17David Let’s assume that you are correct in saying that Avery refuses to identify with one group or whatever the exact scenario is. How do you know his motivation is to appeal to as many people as possible? Couldn’t his motivation be something completely different?
Christians believe that Jesus is the eternal divine Son of the Father, one with the Father and the Spirit. The Father, Son, and Spirit are coequal and coeternal Persons, yet one God.
And yes, that is beyond our full comprehension. But so is the eternal nature of God Himself.
Think about time. What was God doing before the beginning? How far back does that go? Our minds want to keep extending time backward forever, but Scripture begins with God creating: “In the beginning…” (Genesis 1:1). Time therefore itself belongs to creation. So there was no “before” creation in the way we normally think of before.
That is completely incomprehensible to us. But we don’t reject God’s eternality because we can’t fully understand it. In the same way, you shouldn’t reject the Trinity simply because you can’t fully understand it. No one can. But it is what is revealed in scripture.
Take a look at the following passages:
Jesus said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). He said He is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 14:10-11). He said, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
He also said, “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58), taking to Himself the divine name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14). He said whatever the Father does, the Son does in like manner (John 5:19). He said the Father has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father (John 5:22-23). And He will render to each person according to his deeds (Matthew 16:27). This is only a few verses, there are more.
That is why the Jewish leaders accused Him of blasphemy. Not merely because He claimed to be the Messiah, but because they understood Him to be making Himself equal with God (John 5:18; John 10:33).
If He had merely claimed to be Messiah and they thought He was false, that would be a false claim. But blasphemy only makes sense if either they believed Messiah was divine, or in Jesus’ particular case, they understood Him to be claiming deity. And the Gospels make clear that He was.
Jesus repeatedly took divine prerogatives to Himself, and said things only God can say, foremost among them that eternal life depends on believing in Him (John 3:16; John 6:40; John 14:6).
C. S. Lewis’s in his now famous “trilemma” rightly draws this conclusion: Jesus is either Lord, liar, or lunatic. There is no middle ground where He is merely a prophet or merely a good man. His own claims rule that out.
And ultimately, His resurrection from the dead proved that He is who He said He was (Romans 1:4).
@HwsEleutheroi@Mormonger Great book. I read it years ago before I even knew who James White was, just picked it up in the bookstore (back when they had Christian bookstores). Need to read it again.
That’s a tangled premise.
Muhammad claimed to confirm the Torah and Gospel that existed in his day (Quran 5:47, 5:68, 10:94), yet he contradicted them on core matters: like who Jesus is, the crucifixion, and salvation. That’s the Islamic Dilemma: if the Bible is reliable, the Quran fails; if it’s corrupted, the Quran is wrong for affirming it.
Judge Muhammad the same way you’d judge any prophet in the 7th century: by the scriptures that came before him (the Christian Bible, including the Old Testament). He doesn’t line up.
The real question isn’t whether Muslims accept the premise. It’s whether Muhammad’s message matches what God already revealed through Jesus.
And remember what Jesus said: “the scripture cannot be broken.”
@Mormonger@HwsEleutheroi The Bible clearly teaches there is only one God, but you set that aside in favor of your LDS heresy of many gods. Don’t claim to follow Jesus because you don’t follow the Jesus of the Bible. You follow a counterfeit Jesus.
@Ghodai1@MessiahJHF@GodLogic_GL The most urgent question for Muslims to consider is not the deity of Christ, but whether or not Muhammad was a false prophet. What evidence is there that he was a true prophet? Did what he preached conform with the scriptures or did he contradict the scriptures?
When I was Muslim, I would argue & say we had the same prophets as Christians.
But this one broke me:
Surah 17:101: Allah gave Moses 9 clear signs.
I knew the list. The staff. The shining hand. The drought. The flood. The locusts. The lice. The frogs. The blood.
I held onto those 9 signs like proof I had the real story.
But bro, you know what shook me?
There’s a night missing.
After all nine signs, right before Israel walks out of Egypt, something happens that the Quran goes completely silent on.
A lamb is slaughtered.
Its blood painted on the doorposts.
And death passes over every house covered by that blood.
The Passover.
I grew up hearing the whole Exodus story. But nobody ever told me about the blood on the door.
Islam just skips it.
And here’s what wrecked me.
The Bible, the book I was taught was corrupted, mentions the Passover over 70 times.
Exodus. Leviticus. Numbers. Deuteronomy. The Psalms. The Prophets. The Gospels. Paul.
70 times.
So I had to ask myself the honest question:
If men corrupted this book, why would they obsess over the same story for 1500 years? Across dozens of authors who never met?
You don’t forge a document 70 times.
That’s just not corruption.
That to me is preservation.
And then I read the line that finished me off.
1 Corinthians 5:7.
“Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed.”
That’s when it hit me.
The whole story was never just about Moses.
It was always pointing to a King.
The final lamb. Whose blood, when applied to your life, makes death pass over you.
Forever.
The Quran gave me 9 signs but hid the one night that explains why any of them happened.
Because the moment a Muslim understands the Passover…
he’s one step away from the cross.
Texas Taxpayers WILL FUND the MOST DANGEROUS Muslim Brotherhood Operators We Warned About LAST MONTH
Exactly as RAIR Foundation warned your leadership in May: the school voucher program is being hijacked to funnel your tax dollars straight to hardcore Muslim Brotherhood networks.
It’s happening.
Just one day after a federal judge forced the state to surrender, the Texas Comptroller approved two more North Texas Islamic schools - Excellence Academy (McKinney) and Brighter Horizons Academy (Garland) - for the taxpayer-funded ESA program.
Parents now have until March 31. Nearly 900 more students applied since the ruling. Total: ~230,000.
We told you this would happen.
We handed Texas leaders the full dossier on Dr. Main Al Qudah - the Muslim Brotherhood mastermind now building an $80 million, 30-acre Sharia mega-compound in Katy.
Al Qudah (President of Guidance College, co-founder of Houston Quran Academy) openly bragged in his own podcast about the voucher program:
“Islamic school actually have to take full advantage of this… Muslim parents have to take advantage… there’s no excuse… this is our tax money.”
He called it “excellent” and the perfect tool to expand cradle-to-grave Islamic education - Quran memorization, Sharia, full religious curriculum from kindergarten through university - while claiming it’s “two schools in one.”
This is the same Al Qudah:
• Deep MB family roots (father & uncle high-ranking members)
• Replaced imam at a pre-9/11 terror-linked mosque tied to bin Laden’s network
• Sits on AMJA Fatwa Committee pushing wife-beating, hating kuffar, death for apostates, zakat for jihad
• Longtime partner of Hamed Ghazali (named in the 1991 MB Memorandum as architect to “destroy Western civilization from within”)
Their network - Houston Quran Academy, Guidance College, Al-Huda Islamic Center - is now perfectly positioned to siphon up to $10,474 per child in your tax dollars.
We did the reports. We warned everyone. Texas leaders were handed the evidence.
And they’re doing it anyway.
Texas - demand full investigations, curriculum transparency, terror-tie audits, and immediate protections.
Your tax dollars are now building the Brotherhood’s parallel society right in your backyard.
We warned you last month.
Now it’s happening.
SEE OUR FULL REPORT HERE: https://t.co/AyNck6HUTe
@JMNewsNetwork_ Muslims believe that but they have no good reason to believe it. It contradicts the prior scriptures therefore it should be thrown out.
Also you started out by saying that the apostle Paul implied it and then you start making huge philosophical jumps from one thing to another. There’s nothing in the Bible that the apostle Paul said that came anywhere close to the veneration of icons. The reason for that is that it didn’t exist and he would’ve vehemently opposed it. God performed unusual attesting miracles through Paul with the handkerchiefs— what on earth does that have to do with venerating icons? Answer: nothing at all. What the apostle Paul did imply is that you absolutely should not do such things—he would’ve called that turning back to the weak and worthless elemental things of the world to which you wish to be enslaved all over again. Read the book of Colossians.