Nugget

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

Yeah, we got this one wrong initially as well. You were asking for etennis-specific stats, while support generally only has access to broader match betting stats (like overall wager and profit), so the agent didn't think we could provide them.

Again, we shouldn't be straight up telling people "no" without checking properly first, and I've spoken to the guy about this. He also apologized for this in your ticket.

They checked with the match betting team afterward, who managed to pull the stats from one of their dashboards and sent them over.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

The initial answers were based on the provider telling us there was no issue, without giving us the actual timestamps to back that up. I wasn't happy with that answer either, which is why I kept pushing them.

Those timestamps showed that one bet was affected, which we acknowledged and refunded, and that the other two weren't.

I get why you're skeptical after the initial response. That's also why we kept pushing after they initially told us all three bets were fine, because we wanted the actual timestamps to back that up. Once we got them, one bet turned out to be affected and we refunded it. If the timestamps had shown the same for the other two, we'd of course have refunded those too.

I'm not really sure what else you want from us at this point. Yes, we fucked up by initially telling you it was impossible, and we've acknowledged that. We kept investigating, found out the initial information was wrong, and refunded the bet that was actually affected.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

So you claim it had been reported before?
Yes. We had to dig through the archives to find the previous report.

How come both your support and provider said this was impossible to happen?
I can only speak for us, but the agents who responded to you were unaware of the previous report. When we report bugs to our provider, they raise a ticket in their own system, which we don't have access to, so there wasn't anything on our end connecting your report to the previous one. It was only found after I dug through some several month old tickets.

The agents relied on the provider's initial response that it wasn't possible, which in hindsight was obviously the wrong way to communicate it, since nothing is impossible. That's on us.

How can I trust you when I know they were affected when you lied several times about the first bet?
Fair question. We never intentionally lied to you. We were given incorrect information by our provider and passed that along without a second thought. That's on us, and we shouldn't have told you something was impossible when we couldn't verify that ourselves + stuff rarely is.

We always try to be fair, and we're not going to risk our reputation by knowingly lying about timestamps to avoid compensating a few hundred/thousand coins. I get why you're skeptical though, and there's not really much more I can do to prove it beyond that.

All three bets you reported were reviewed multiple times. The exact timestamps I provided in my previous reply came directly from our odds provider, and once those timestamps showed that one of your bets were affected, we refunded it in full.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

I agree Kilo’s message could’ve been worded better, but the system functioned exactly as it was set up to at that time. He said “we’re cooking” because we were in the middle of rolling out a change that would stop buyers from getting refunded if they reversed, but that update wasn’t live yet.
​
If this had been a case where you were the buyer and we told you that reversing in that very moment would result in a refund - and then it didn’t - that would’ve been a different story. But here, you were the seller, and the message didn’t actually cause any action on your part.
​
The buyers could’ve reversed before or after that message (before the update) and the result would’ve been exactly the same.

The Dr.W case is different because he reversed a full day after the update was pushed, despite being told he wouldn't get a refund 10+ times.
​
I get that this sucks for you, since you're innocent in all of this, where you sold your items and the rat buyers reversed because they were too poor to own the loss. You would've been automatically credited for the trades if they had reversed after the change, but they did so before it went live.
​
Is that fair? No, fuck those guys, but we can't take their coins and give them to you since this all happened before the change.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

Solid feedback, tyty

Bonuses/rakeback:
Don't you think instant rakeback is just objectively better? Even if it's a smaller amount, most people would rather get it right away than have to log in repeatedly over months to claim their $0.3 reward

KYC:
With all the shady sites kyc-blocking users and holding winnings, wouldn't you feel safer playing somewhere you know won't do that if you win big?

More games:
Totally fair. Duel is still fairly new and more games are coming soon, including keno

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

He reversed the day after despite being told numerous times that we wouldn't refund him if he did

Trying our best to make things right by having the sellers resend trades for the items, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't comment on who's right or wrong - @monarchlawyer will handle it

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@nimpgg @CSGOEmpireClay why do you think it's worse for regular players? everyone gets 100% rtp originals and 50% rakeback on casino wagers

what games would you like to see added?

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

My issue is the lack of transparency. You're only showing the parts of the conversation that support your side, and there's more context than that you're refusing to show people 🤷‍♂️

It's whatever though. No point going in circles. The big man will decide in the end.

Appreciate you taking the time to discuss things.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@LuddeTrades @genericmainer @DrWgamba @CSGOEmpireLuke @stickyhand Yeah, that would be great, but "gamba bad" or w/e. I have a feeling other site owners don’t want to collaborate because of that.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@DrWgamba @genericmainer @LuddeTrades @CSGOEmpireLuke @stickyhand Why is that a big revelation? You already posted that screenshot earlier.

If you want full transparency, post the full conversation so people can see the entire context, not only the parts that help your case.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@genericmainer @LuddeTrades @DrWgamba @CSGOEmpireLuke @stickyhand It's up to him to share the full convo. I'm not going to leak it without permission due to data protection and all that jazz.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@genericmainer @LuddeTrades @DrWgamba @CSGOEmpireLuke @stickyhand He's not showing the full convo.

A support agent said a refund could happen if he reversed "asap" before the change, but he didn't reverse then. Later that day we told him multiple times there would be no refund, which he read and replied to. He reversed the next day anyway.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

We're a P2P site and only escrow the buyer's funds for trades. I get what you're saying, but we're not steam and can't force a trade through if the seller reverses.

Both situations are messy because reversals happen entirely on steam, outside our system. There's no perfect and fair way to enforce seller reversals.

[IAMJERM @I_am_jerm]

Hey twin @CounterStrike I think people are using your trade reverse feature for things that aren’t scams

Unless you think there has been a 50000% increase in scams the last 2 days

Maybe you should do something about that yeah? :)

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

When a seller reverses, we permanently ban them from the marketplace. We'll likely add heavier penalties soon too, since it's becoming more common.

The issue is that in 99.9% of cases, sellers who reverse don't have any balance left, so there's nothing we can credit back to the buyer. It's almost impossible to patch since the actual trades happen on steam, not directly through the site.

It's happened to me too, and yeah, it sucks when it does. But it's not quite the same as reversing a purchase after you've already received the item you paid for.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@DrWgamba @TookyooG @vntful We're not holding the money. The money was released to the sellers when you reversed on the 24th.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@DrWgamba @Sebasti42076005 @TookyooG @vntful You should probably share the full ticket so people can see the full context and reasoning behind this, not just the parts that fit your side. Transparency works both ways.

[Nugget @EmpNugget]

@Sebasti42076005 @TookyooG @DrWgamba @vntful The trade protection update was pushed by steam to help prevent phishing scams, not to be used as an 8-day speculation period where buyers/sellers are free to reverse their trades on P2P marketplaces without consequences.

Items are transferred instantly after accepting.