Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️

Professor of Logic down at the University of Science. Some Dumbass, 27 & Dude || Top 1% in Big Five Neuroticism

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono Worth noting that if you’re interested in this there are some prominent theorists who hold what I gather to be your view. But they’ve been to my mind pretty thoroughly rebutted. My position and that of their critics is that what’s being described is a moral duty not a right.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

It literally cannot be a right lol. It both requires others labor and cannot be ensured. Whether you think it should be socialized/nationalized or not, the rights framing is just incoherent.

[𝘼𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚𝙪𝙨𝘽𝙤𝙡𝙨𝙝𝙚𝙫𝙞𝙠 @Invariance_Tech]

"Healthcare is NOT a Human-"

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono It’s a structural difference. I think you’re interpreting me to be arguing ab a policy or regulatory line that I’m not. I’m simply saying I don’t see how you can justify those things on a rights basis.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono Why would they pay for wrongful death suits? Thats very much in line with the distinction I’m making.
The point is the government, unless liable, does not restore you from rights violations. It protects you from them and punishes those that violate them.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono It’s not vague at all. Where do you think I’m not being clear? I’m saying procedural (positive) rights are essentially enforcement of primary rights (negative as in they don’t require action from others).

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono It’s a distinction between enforcement and restoration. I’m not sure where those two things converge in your view. Should the government be responsible for restoring vandalized property?

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@WayofLono @BurtRock69 I just don’t see how you’re arguing that the regulatory mandate that people not be turned away when in need of emergency treatment is an example of healthcare broadly being seen as a right.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@rob_mcrobberson Nothing ever happens theorists once again vindicated

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@WayofLono @BurtRock69 And again, your entire purpose in arguing here is that you think it’s not being treated as a right. So idk how you can argue it’s functionally a right and also not being treated as such.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@WayofLono @BurtRock69 What a right is isn’t semantic it’s descriptive and normative. Regardless, a right to life is a negative right, if you want to bridge that gap you need to explain why it naturally follows that your right not to be deprived of life requires that others affirmatively extend it.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono I don’t think you’re fully understanding what it means to have life be a primary right.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono Fair enough as it goes, though there’s a few steps missing in justifying it as a directly required procedural right. The right to life means someone cannot take it from you, how would you bridge that into someone is required to treat any ailments I get?

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono This distinction between negative and positive rights is extraordinarily common lol. Where rights derive from, what they constitute, and the boundaries and interactions are debated but very few rights theorists don’t make this distinction. I’d be surprised if you can name one.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@WayofLono @BurtRock69 Under your own framework it isn’t a right, so I’m not really sure why it’s so controversial for someone to say it’s not lol.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@WayofLono @BurtRock69 Ive never said it’s not nor have I said thats wrong. I’ve said a primary right cannot require labor to access.

Mandates and regulations are also downstream of rights, not rights themselves.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

Why is this inherently wrong? Like maybe I’m missing something but there seems a fundamental difference between your partner having sex with someone w your own gender and someone having sex with the other gender.

[⚢ 𝐌𝐞𝐫𝐨𝐤𝐨🎡 @bunnylobotomyy]

Oomf's new boyfriend allowed her to have poly relationships with women, but not with men.. I wonder why that is.. Surely it isn't because he's a scumbag who thinks lesbian relationships do not count and are not a threat to him...Surely it isn't.. God I hate this man already

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono Some examples of primary rights are- life, speech, and liberty.
Requiring labor isn’t wrong because labor under any regime that respects primary rights is voluntary. No one is forcing unwilling people to do any job so requirements therein are fine.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono I’m using a standard philosophical and legal understanding of rights. There are exceptions in legal theory but they tend to have positive rights (those that require action from others) to be a lesser form since they can only be met as resources allow.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono I can see a case for it being a procedural right in that case though.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono If you explain how maybe I’ll agree but I don’t see how that’s so.

[Harry 🧙🏻‍♂️ @Harryofthe]

@BurtRock69 @WayofLono There is no ethical problem with utilizing labor, and I’ve never stated there is, the point is about the nature of rights as such. The reason labor is relavent is because primary rights are self-justifying. Things that require another’s action to access cannot be self justifying.