J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ

All data is valuable, all evidence is statistical, all explanation is diachrony, all inquiry is permissible. Doing Uralic (pre)historical linguistics.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Presentation from a little while back: finding a 2nd sibilant in Old Finnish and Old Karelian
https://t.co/YNUzBFXWA2

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada I believe you are at this point playing dumb. We both know broadly why you object to majorities "claiming protections", w/o qualifications in what from. But you may keep your fig-leaf deniability; your failure to produce a single concrete problem about this is concession enough.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@AlCabbage045 @MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada And not that anyone otherwise brought up the concept of "colonizer" thus far; but I am, mildly put, uninterested in the question of whom it might apply to.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@AlCabbage045 @MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada Irrelevant. "Owning wealth / land" is not a crime. Torture-murders very much are. They are a hated and persecuted minority in their own home country; as far as I am concerned, only bigots or blind idiots can deny this.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada Not wholly wrong. I am, yes, in favor of universal human rights (including elementary ones such as freedom of speech) in fact applying universally, not with unprincipled blacklist exceptions.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Today in the age of Unicode we might now actually use e̮ most of the time; or also ɤ / ɘ / ʌ if we wanted real IPA, but that need more care than search-and-replace. (E.g. Estonian routinely uses /ɤ/; Permic or Nenets e̮ seem closer to [ɘ], though sometimes you also see /ə/ used.)

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

One of the weirder transcription standards in Uralic studies these days. ë and ï originate as a misreading of IPA, where ◌̈ means 'centralized' (not strictly 'central', like FUT ◌̮ does!) and got picked up into widespread use circa 70s as being very typewriter-friendly.

[toukkis @toukkis2]

Finnish orthography annoyingly uses /y/ for the front-vocalic counterpart of /u/ even though /ü/ would fit much nicer with the other pairs o~ö, a~ä but this is nothing compared to /ë/ signifying the *back-vocalic* counterpart of /e/ in certain standards for Proto-Finnic >:/

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@Damedaweld_ @VoticEmo One of those actually open and little-discussed questions of Finnic prehistory: did Votic ever extend fully to the coast and get ousted from there, or was Northern Finnic (Kukkuzi and/or Ingrian proper) present also south of the coast from the start?

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@toukkis2 @t6ivmus I suspect this is indeed a part — in that compounds in the "non-eroded" Finnish can tend to end up fairly long, e.g. calquing _kyvburyś_ we'd get something like _sananparantaja_, evocative for sure but still on the clunky side in length.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@AlCabbage045 @MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada FWIW considering they *are* a minority, plus the organized campaign of mass murder / ethnic cleansing against them by black nationalist psychos, I would argue at least Afrikaans-speaking Boers could well be classified even as capital-I Indigenous under international justice.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@AlCabbage045 @MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada Probably not. Seems at least arguable to me though! Including from general principles, not only from placing self-description above all else (which even here would give very mixed results, I believe). Words mean different things to different people, fairly routine phenomenon.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada Anyway I am aware the concept "Indigeneity" is partly favored specifically for muddying waters between the supposed "technical" and "everyday" meanings, but also usually the confusion people hope to result from this is not in people amusingly huffing their own propaganda.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada This branch of the discussion is not about special protections ("capital-I Indigeneity"), it is about whether the everyday concept of ("small-i") indigeneity could possibly be said to apply to the English.

Tangential btw, but I would argue the English do not have a nation-state.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada This skirting around is naturally a thing that many people will find instinctively distasteful: "clearly some people ought to have rights or recognition of their existence, but it is ~political~ and ~nontrivial~ whether even the English ought to"

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @royllovians @avzaagzonunaada Just like all other decisions to consider anyone else indigenous to anywhere at all 🙂

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Or, in other dialects, we have aa > oa, which is also a diphthong; but again *oɣa > oa in standard Fi. is not assumed to be one.
Surely is possible to "enunciate two syllables" into a form like /loan/, gen_sg. of loka 'dirt'; but the same might well also apply to e.g. /ie/…

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Clearly /joan baez/ (if not indeed /joan paes/) in Finnish, but who even knows how many syllables? The syllable count of vowel sequences in Fi. within a single foot has basically a traditional consensus on what counts and what doesn't, but phonetic evidence is a harder question.

[Darin Flynn @phono_logical]

Joan: two syllables acc. to AI?
Baez: one syllable acc. to Wikipedia?

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

E.g. /ie/ is a diphthong, both when from *ee (tie 'road' ~ Est. tee) or by contraction from *iɣe (hiki : hien 'sweat', nom_sg. : gen_sg.); dialectal ie > iä is also a diphthong. But in standard Fi., /iä/ from (only) *iɣä (ikä : iän 'age') usually is assumed to not be a diphthong?

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

#8: here's one for the "it looks similar so clearly there must be a semantic bridge to freestyle" genre: cf. Finnish / Karelian hamua- 'to browse vegetation (look around for preferred plant stuff to eat)'
(no Uralic etym.? not a problem for fake cognates!)
https://t.co/HbJNdbo4dk

[Proto-Oceanic Every Day @ProtoOceanic]

*kamu₃
chew, move to and fro in the mouth

Cheke Holo: gamu 'eat'
Maori: kamu 'to eat; munch, move the mouth as if eating'

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Fake Uralic cognate: *palwa 'village' (Ugric; > Hungarian falu, Northern Mansi pāwəl, Vakh Khanty puɣəl, Kazym Khanty pǫχəɬ etc.)

[Proto-Oceanic Every Day @ProtoOceanic]

*panua
village

Hawaiian: honua 'land, earth'
Mota: vanua 'land, island, village, place'

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

Day #7: could be coupled with PU *aŋtə 'spear, blade', reflected clearly in Ob-Ugric and Samoyedic; maybe also in Hungarian oldal 'rib' (Aikio 2018 defends *ŋt > ld as regular), Mari *umðə 'thorn'.
However, note that -tə is not any known suffix…
https://t.co/wTyOgmcV2S

[Proto-Oceanic Every Day @ProtoOceanic]

*aŋi₂
sharp

Seimat: aŋi-an 'sharp'
Tolai: m-aŋi 'sharp, of pointed or edged tools; to sharpen, point'

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@MagnusPharao @avzaagzonunaada On the contrary, under democracy it is a great and necessary one. No law will be enforced that the people supposed to uphold it see as unjust, none will be enforced with consistency that people see as irrelevant.

[J Pystynen ✽🫐 🗒☕⌘🚯🧦ᴤ @JLingPystynen]

@pchngta @chrisinthebooks @avzaagzonunaada Yes, that's my point: we cannot draw a line based on this. Trying to work out the First Oppressor is a folly, an endless regress when Nature itself is red in tooth and claw.