a John Oliver

Reformed Christian, Post Mil, Husband, Father, Grandfather, Writer, Musician "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever."

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@ReformedCaio Ah, yes, I've run into that as well. In the case of this verse, I usually just say, this is not a deep theological discussion regarding the ordo salutis, but a simple Gospel declaration - We say to the lost, come to Christ, trust Him and you will have new life.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@ReformedCaio Perfect, yes, I agree! I'm trying to think how this would be a problem in a debate. How have you seen them used incorrectly in discussion?

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@BiblicalBeauty

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@WMarinelliNonno @Soteriology101 You gave two quotes; did you have a point? You understand my position would be that the Holy Spirit had brought those people to cry out that way, right?

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@WMarinelliNonno @Soteriology101 Rather, I think it proves my point. The spiritually dead aren’t physically incapable of anything. They are morally hostile to God and refuse to submit. Being dead is not something you can will yourself out of. We must be rescued. We don’t choose our way into new life.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 Leighton, you're not explaining it, you're just proclaiming it. And you ignored all of my questions. What is the nature of the slavery Paul speaks of? What is the nature of this entity called sin? What does it mean to be a slave to sin? What does "body of death" mean?

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 Why would it have been bad for him to eat and live forever? What is the entity called sin that Paul speaks of in Romans 5 & 7? Something entered the world beyond just bad choices. What is it, and why did Paul say he was bound by it and say he had a body of death?

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist Confession is not merely the moving of lips and vocal chords; if the heart is not behind the words, it is a lie. I'm saying a fallen man's heart is not towards God, though his lips go through the motions...."...your heart is far from me."

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist As for the difference between humbling ourselves before God and our neighbor, I have answered this. We can make peace with our neighbor, but there is a corruption in our nature - specifically opposed to God - by which we are unwilling to submit to Him apart from grace.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist This passage does not teach that God "controls the heart," merely that mankind is unable to come to God as Joseph's brothers "could not speak peaceably to him" 37:4, not because they couldn't speak, but because they hated him, just as fallen man hates God and refuses to come.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist Which "proof texts"? Please quote them and I'll respond. As for reconciling with a neighbor, of course one can, but again, it is not out of obedience to God, which was my point about "making peace." It's not equal to being reconciled to our Creator who sees the heart.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist No "ability to desire" is not the same thing, for they have all sorts of desires. Ability is simply the wrong term. They refuse, their will is bent away from God. Being reconciled to a neighbor who can't see our heart is drastically different. Making peace is not the same thing.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 @B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist Leighton, you won't see me using the language of "losing his ability," since I don't think they lose ability but the desire. They are able to make all sorts of choices, but none are for right reasons. They are "bent" as Lewis described them. They hear the call but reject it.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@B_Snyder1973 @YourCalvinist @Soteriology101 No, not at all. All have true agency, as in they make real choices. But their natures are corrupted, so the choices they make are not out of love to God and adherence to His law.

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@BiblicalBeauty @MidwestDadVibes Been nice knowing you…. Just kidding! You’ll be fine!

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@JesusDied4UToo Great album! I love most of his albums but that one and Speechless are my favorites! He’s doing his Speechless tour right now, where plays through the entire album. We went to see him last October; it was excellent!

[a John Oliver @Johnno366]

@Soteriology101 As I’ve said countless times to you, Leighton, no man is shown his final destination, only his current condition, and through the Gospel, the way out. That someone is elect or not is not a fact any man knows. People go to hell for their own sin and to heaven by God’s grace.