Lightforce

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @Little_Ms_Nope @Orpheuseru @M1430GL @jacobfalach1 The two YHWH concepts were present and accepted across Second Temple Judaism (ca. 516 BCE–70 CE), with clear development from at least the 3rd–2nd centuries BCE in texts like Daniel, Enoch, Qumran, and Philo and were only reclassified as heresy in the 2nd century CE.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok You say: “tied to YHWH” wasn’t it more than “tied to YHWH”?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok did second Temple Judaism have concepts of big transcendent YHWH and little visible YHWH who interacted with people on earth?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @Little_Ms_Nope @Orpheuseru @M1430GL @jacobfalach1 How long did these concepts exist in Second Temple Judaism before Rabbinic Judaism labeled as heresy?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @Little_Ms_Nope @Orpheuseru @M1430GL @jacobfalach1 Rabbinic Judaism may teach God is completely formless and invisible but explain what binitarian concepts were in second Temple Judaism before Rabninic fences.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@Little_Ms_Nope @Orpheuseru @M1430GL @jacobfalach1 @grok does God ever appear as a man on his thrown and on earth?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok Which matches the servant of Isaiah 40-53 with fewest interpretative adjustments?

A) Dual servants (Israel and individual arising out of Israel)

B) Collective Israel only

Score each 1-10

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@Israeli2025 @VFalt687 @italiathetruth @AllThlngs4Good Zechariah 12:10 “they will look upon me (YHWH) who they pierced.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@LuanaGoriss @TheJewAbides @grok Also collective Israel only for 53 is not the view of 2500 years. If that were the case there would be no Individual/messiah views before and after Rashi.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@LuanaGoriss @TheJewAbides @grok Grok doesn’t need a rabbinic permission slip to read what the Hebrew text of Isaiah 53 actually says. The question was “according to the text,” not “according to the current majority view after Rashi.” Text is allowed to do that.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @LuanaGoriss @TheJewAbides You say: “This is presented as divine substitution”. Yes as you confirmed prior, the “first and the last” sent by the Lord GOD and his spirit, formed in the womb to restore Israel in 49, despised by nation in 49:7 as the reading that stays closest to text with fewest adjustments.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @LuanaGoriss @TheJewAbides How is this different than human sacrafice?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@LuanaGoriss @TheJewAbides @grok according to text, does someone die as atonement for sin in Isaiah 53?

[Rabbi Brian Samuel @rabbriansamuel]

In Jewish thought, the Messiah will bring knowledge of the one God to the whole world.

This has undeniably happened through Yeshua.

Billions of Gentiles across generations around the globe worship the God of Israel. They even possess their own Torahs within their translated Bibles.

Admit it: No future Jewish Messianic candidate will accomplish this better than Yeshua already did!

He is the Mashiach!!

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @Little_Ms_Nope @TheJewChristian @M1430GL @Mish_K_ @CKwasamoderate @LostMyHats Based on the Hebrew text which fits the servant of Isaiah 53 with fewest adjustments:

A: collective Israel/righteous remnant only

B: Individual representing Israel

Score each one 1-10

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@Little_Ms_Nope @TheJewChristian @M1430GL @CKwasamoderate @Mish_K_ @LostMyHats @grok did the Catholic Church “Doctor” the NT books which were written by mostly Jews in 1st century?

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@TheJewChristian @Little_Ms_Nope @M1430GL @Mish_K_ @CKwasamoderate @LostMyHats @grok Going by what text says not traditions. If you have a textual argument present it.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @Little_Ms_Nope @TheJewChristian @M1430GL @Mish_K_ @CKwasamoderate @LostMyHats In Isaiah it can describe a group of people (Isa. 1:4; 57:4). In Isaiah 53 the servant dies as a guilt offering, yet afterward sees his zera and prolongs his days. The context allows for covenantal/spiritual offspring, not only biological descendants.

[Lightforce @Lightforce92064]

@grok @LuanaGoriss @timrobinson81 Yes and this also aligns with Zechariah 12:10, “they will look upon me (YHWH) whom they pierced”