Jonathan Davis

Builder of ideas, driven by faith and an endless supply of curiosity. Exploring truth wherever it's found while creating something meaningful for the future.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

The bible says God created the universe through Jesus, that Jesus is the exact imprint of his nature, and then became flesh.

He always was, but was given a name that had been prepared for him from the beginning, with hints even recorded in Genesis 1 and 3.

Genesis 1, in the beginning God spoke saying, "Let there be light."

For the first time in all physical history, God -a transcendent and all powerful being- spoke to a blop of dark potential matter and mass that had a form like water saying, "Let there be Light."

God not only made his presence directly known to a super cosmic void, the making of his presence at all brought a type of energy and force that the material blob had never experienced before.. sonoluminescense is cool here because we can use it's principles as a potential analog.

Genesis 3, the curse to satan that through the woman's "seed," which later passages expand the meaning of "seed" to include reproductive material like sperm, not just lineage, which means in Genesis 3, seed could be seen as an oocyte by modern understandings. God knew the specific oocyte that he would use for his body way back in the garden.

Redemption was his mission not his purpose. His purpose is to reveal the full glory of God; which is done through the redemption and restoration purchased through the cross.

It sounds like im just trying to argue a small thing, but the distinction that Jesus's purpose was redemption vs Jesus's purpose is to reveal the full glory of God is important.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

But Jesus is claimed be the source of the first light at the beginning of creation.

The "earth" in Genesis 1 can be read as all the particles of matter in a singularity plasma like form just fine.

The "heavens" could also be read as the invisible laws, "kingdoms, principalities, and etc" governing this matter and the "space" to contain it all.

Then Genesis records God imparting an intentional and direct force upon this "earth" by breathing on it, and speaking to it saying, "let there be light" which brought about the first light of the universe. John 1 (and other passages from John), Hebrews 1, Colossians 1 all suggest that Jesus is the source of this first light, and the physical manifesting presence of God made human.
(See exodus too where Moses got to look upon the radiance of God's glory)

All this given thousands of years ago and preserved ever since

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@grok @MaclainHunter @sheltz32tt @UgoCannon Dont forget primordial black holes

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@grok @MaclainHunter @sheltz32tt @UgoCannon Yet Genesis 1 says God separated the pre-solar light from the darkness; implying there would be regions in our world where light absolutely does not shine, preserving a truer sense of darkness.

What is a black hole?

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@grok @MaclainHunter @sheltz32tt @UgoCannon What about in black holes

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

As Gödel said, in any system sufficient for basic arithmetic, there exists true axioms that cannot be proven from within.

​Gödel showed that while a system cannot prove its own true statements or its own consistency, you can step outside that system into a larger, more powerful one to prove them.

​Here is how that works:
​The Object System: This is the base mathematical system you are studying. It has strict rules but is trapped by Gödel's limits.
​The Meta-System: This is the "outside" system. It contains all the rules of the object system plus additional tools and axioms.

​Because the meta-system has more logical power, it can look down at the object system and prove the truths that the object system is blind to.

It doesn't fully resolve the issue for us as humans, but that's the point.

Yet Jesus being the embodiment of the truth.. and then going to the crucifixion only to rise again 3 days later

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

Saying "logic is a precondition for discourse" is a statement made by a human, using human language, inside a human mind. It doesn't prove an objective, external existence; it just proves the limits of our own cognitive software.
​Ultimately, we cannot climb outside of our own minds to check if logic is floating around the cosmos independently. We can only say for certain that it is the fundamental operating system of human thought.

However, what is unique about the Bible is that it claims Jesus is the embodiment of logic- in a sense.

Jesus is the logos of God become human, but also Jesus declares: "I am the way, the truth, and the life.."

The truth here in this context is not a metaphorical statement of possessing the truth. He is claiming to be the ultimate reality and the source of all truth incarnate.

At the end of the day, you cannot get structure without an underlying parameter or framework of "invisible laws" that establish the structure. The Bible agrees with this.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

How do you prove a negative?

If Jesus really did rise from the dead, how do you expect to have conclusive evidence outside of exactly what we find in the bible and church testimonies?

We already have josephus and jewish tradition verifying the crucifixion, along with jewish tradition verifying that the tomb was empty.

The shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo already have matching blood types and stain patterns. Historical geographical tracking of both the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo using palynology (the study of pollen grains and spores) and forensic anthropology matched both of them together and from the region of Israel around the 1st century.

​Specifically, scientists and criminologists used the following methods:
​
Sticky-Tape Lifting: Transparent adhesive tape was applied to the fabrics to extract trapped dust, pollen, and microscopic residue without damaging the ancient linen.

​Light Microscopy & SEM-EDX: Researchers used standard light microscopes and Scanning Electron Microscopy with Energy Dispersive X-ray Spectroscopy to analyze the unique geometric structures (exines) of the pollen grains, matching them to specific plant species native to the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe.
​
Forensic Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Ballistics and forensic experts mapped the shape, geometry, and placement of the fluid stains on both cloths. They found that the facial stains on the Sudarium anatomically match the stains on the Shroud of Turin, indicating they covered the same individual.

But even if... none of these prove anything in themselves better than the historical testimonies of the gospels

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

If a meteor flies over a small village in Africa, and a reporter goes to the village and collects a bunch of accounts about the village seeing the meteor, is the reporter's telling of a meteor crossing over this village a lie?

He can't prove a meteor flew over this village, but should that discredit his report?

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

A conciousness cant bleed or be crucified.

He was fully human while being fully divine.

Jesus is the full manifested presence of God who became human by a miraculous conception in a virgin.

The power that structured the entire universe and provided the first light, became human and lived perfectly among us before he was crucified.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@oshikoya104 @UgoCannon Why would anyone witness a man claiming to be God die and come back to the dead 3 days later and remain not a Christian?

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@teslaxx559 @UgoCannon The empty tomb and jewish acceptance that the body of Jesus went missing is evidence.

By any forensic and historical standard, that is evidence.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

God makes the foundational conditions that allows all things.

God made all the particles that constitute matter at the beginning of the universe, and then started everything in motion knowing exactly where everything would end up.

In that sense, God made everything.

But in the totality sense, God does not directly author evil nor does he do acts of or is tempted by evil.

Evil and by extension things of darkness (i.e. childhood suffering) arise from a twisting and perverting of the good God has created into a state of falling away from God's intended order; aka a similar concept of entropic death.

God restores this only through himself, with Jesus being the bridge.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

@BigDog7601 @UgoCannon The testimony of the church, the bible, the confirmation by roman and jewish sources that Jesus was real and crucified, and the lack then of a body or any solid refutation of the Christian claim other than appealing to secularist dogmatic positions.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

Paul said 500 witnesses saw a resurrected Jesus with most of them being verifiable at the writing of his letter.

Matthew records Jesus appearing to an un-numbered multitude upon the mountain where Jesus gave the great commission.

Luke and John record that Jesus did many things to prove his resurrection for up to 40 days before he ascended to heaven in the clouds.

Even if writings had existed from any of these other witnesses, you already dont believe the bible accounts. Why would you believe more, especially if they all say generally the same stuff?

Writing beyond trade means in general was not that common back then. You point to a caveman drawing, but they depict 1 hunt out of how many thousands?

These writings would have largely been on the cheapest papyrus available, which would've been highly subject to destruction over time.

All this totally independent of direct intentional persecutions of christian writings from the Jews, Romans, pagan faiths, inner faith conflicts, later muslims, and etc.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

Why do you expect the resurrection to be documented somewhere else other than the bible?

The early disciples were walking witnesses that Jesus had risen. They didnt need to write anything down.

Jewish tradition is that the disciples stole the body, but they never produced a body to counter the christian claim nor produced any meaningful confessions.

They didnt have every day journalism back then like we do today.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

Not really. How much of childhood cancer is caused by man influenced consequences?

Babies exposed to harmful and unnatural chemicals during gestational development; babies and parents exposed to unnatural radiation and the accumulation of harmful genetic mutations; exposed to parasites and other toxins through poor food...

Many different reasons. But ultimately the bible says even all the world "groans" in anticipation of Jesus coming back to set everything right and reveal the "children of God"- those who will accept Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Childhood cancer is a late fall-out symptom of the fall, not a proof that God is evil.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

Aside from the "sky daddy" jabs, you are judged because even knowing you arent perfect, you reject Jesus who took your place in death for your imperfections.

Your rejection of Jesus is offensive to God in itself, because Jesus was God offering you mercy and your rejection of him is you refusing mercy.

With refusing God's mercy, you then accuse God of other slanderous things such as being twisted, evil, or what have you.

(Not "you" specifically, but a greater metaphorical "you" as in the general landscape of those who reject Jesus and the typical arguments they give for why they reject God)

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

They reject God the Father, but embrace "Mother Earth."

They reject the authority of Heaven, but seek to build heaven on earth.

They reject the Kingdom of God, yet promise a human utopia.

They reject the idea that mankind is fallen, while simultaneously trying to solve the very greed, lust, envy, pride, violence, and corruption that Scripture says flows from the human heart.

And so men are set against women, children against parents, and every institution is called into question.

The conflict is not ultimately between men and women.

It is between God's created order and mankind's desire to redefine it.

The first temptation was not merely disobedience. It was autonomy:

"You shall be as gods."

The ultimate inversion of a holy, righteous, heavenly Father is not simply a matriarchal figure.

It is the worship of creation over the Creator.

It is exchanging the throne of God for the sovereignty of self.

It is seeking salvation through human will instead of divine grace.

The beast does not always arrive wearing chains.

Sometimes it arrives offering freedom.

[Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction]

[That's the whole reason the Church called her Theotokos at Ephesus. ]

This part is a stretch.

Theotokos was to preserve the divinity of Jesus, but it wasn't "just to keep the son from dissolving into a ghost."

The issue is Theotokos is a technically correct title, not an absolute true title and this is something that Nestorious rightfully pointed out before he was labeled a heretic and went further into greater heresy.

Nestorius believed Christotokos was a safer theological term because it acknowledged that Mary gave birth to the person of Christ, who possessed both a divine and a human nature, without implying that a human creature gave birth to the eternal Godhead.

Part of this debate between Theotokos and Christotokos was heavily entwined with regional politics tho and the power struggle between the school of Alexandria/bishop of Rome and the schools of Constantinople/bishop of Const.

Rome and the school of Alexandria used the Nestorian debate as a means to further solidify western control over the empire and greater christian body, and their actions planted the seeds for the rise of islam ans the future east/west schism.

It should clue you in though.. a debate over Jesus's mother, not so much Jesus himself, and the entire church radically changed for the worse not better...

Nestorious was wrong on a lot of his later theological developments, but I think he was spot on with his warning of Theotokos. He was worried it would cause too much confusion and elevation of Mary, which is exactly what happened.

When a normal human is conceived inside our mother's, our entire soul and existence comes to a beginning within our mother's. When our mother's give birth to us, they are giving birth to the entirety of us that was formed directly inside their womb.

Jesus always was, always is, and always will be. He has no beginning and will have no end. Even before Mary was, he is.

At the annunciation, the word of God and the spirit of God came down upon Mary and overshadowed her, and the baby that was born to Mary was the logos of God made flesh, but Mary was still not the "mother of God" in the sense that our mothers are our mothers.

Jesus is not the Father nor Holy Spirit directly. He is ontologically one with their divine essence, but he is his own unique person.

The Father did not come down and become flesh in Mary; nor did the Holy Spirit. God became human through his logos becoming flesh. It is Jesus who has both a divine nature and human nature entwined in one body of himself; the Father remains most high and the Holy Spirit remains like wind and like a dove.

Theotokos is technically correct because the logos of God who became the Son is still God with us, he is the image of the invisible God after all, but it totally obfuscates and downplays the distinctions of the trinity and the incarnation.

Nestorious was right on this, and the secular influences which gave credibility to the school of Alexandria and the bishop of Rome over everyone else (thanks to edict of thessalonica) were wrong.