@Oliver_S_Curry@freddiesayers@unherd I've wondered why you follow Haidt so closely on this issue. I thought it might be a continuation of your (substantial) critique of his MFT. But is it more a concern of this simple inversion of priorities?
@FrLillie@PageauJonathan I actually appreciated Ortlund pushing back on this. Of course it's both concern for ourselves AND others. Throughout their online exchange Pageau has referenced several Orthodox praying for the salvation of those outside the Church.
@TwiceBornSpirit No one is "fooled" into thinking he doesn't have a Protestant agenda.
He simply does what is necessary for maintaining dialogue that doesn't descend into attacking character.
If only more people would take his example instead of being distracted by attempts at mind reading.
@annielcrawford@PageauJonathan@OrthodoxEthos@Acts17David@gavinortlund I think you're right about modernist brains. However, in my estimation, the misunderstanding between Pageau & Gavin et al arises from him being too *postmodern* in his thinking. More than his interlocutors, but also more than EO for millennia before him. Just a thought.
@Oliver_S_Curry If accurate this is wild. It's a useful factoid to really *feel* the cost of living crisis.
If the average wage in the UK has risen by approx 160% in the same timeframe, why does it feel like a train ticket has gone up 1000000%?!
@PageauJonathan ...Christ purifies the House by excluding those within who don't have faith, St Paul builds the house by teaching inclusion by faith. Justification is on the outside doormat. It is thus a unique contribution of the apostle and essential to differentiate from sanctification.
@PageauJonathan St Paul introduces new language to a new context brought about by the Spirit and the inclusion of Gentiles. Christ purifies the House by excluding those within who don't have faith, St Paul builds the house by teaching inclusion by faith. Justification is on the outside doormat.
@PageauJonathan Yes. Where Prots focus on the work of the pill: " already healed from the disease", Ortho focus on the need for discipline. The Reformers knew we needed both senses of Salvation, or else we fall into one of 2 errors: an over scrupulous legalism; or a laissez-faire antinomianism
@PageauJonathan@gagemurphy777 You simply need to enlarge your catagoroes for Salvation. As do folk Prot.s.
Are you a child of God? Are all people children of God? If the first is 'yes' and the second 'no', then there is an event - not ticket - when something decisive happened, a baptism into the life of God.
@PageauJonathan If you want to improve dialogue, look for Protestant writings that help make your point (for instance, Westminster Conf., XIII). You'll need to look beyond your local baptistic upbringing to the wider, deeper teaching if you're going to help others go beyond folk Protestantism.
@Fair_and_Biased@SwipeWright@JeremyDBoreing Like Boreing here, but victim mentality might be a kind of agency. Lewis wrote that our problem used to be how to conform the soul to reality, but now the problem is how to subdue reality to our wishes. VM is passive, skewed kind of agency opposed to inward cultivation of virtue.
@IVMiles One of the problems with this phenomenon (which I recognise to be true), is that the pulpit is not a place for sophistication. Gathering on a Sunday is not an elitist sport. The pulpit needs to communicate simply for the sake of a growing love for Christ.