Fourth point: The Talbiyah of the polytheists is present in Sahih Muslim: “Labbayk la shariq lak, ila shariqa hu lak…” meaning, they used to take the name of Allah and also believed in no partner. This is the real problem. Islam took Hajj, Tawaf, Kaaba, Talbiyah, sacrifice and many other rituals from the same existing Arab religious environment and gave them a new monotheistic interpretation, just as the Parsis are also monotheistic. Calling this “reform” may be an Islamic belief, but historically it would have to be accepted that these rituals existed in the Arab polytheistic society before Muhammad.
Fifth point: If you say that all these were a corrupted form of the Abrahamic religion, then present independent historical evidence of the original Abrahamic religion. Which pre-Islamic Arabic book says that the Arabs were on the Sharia of Ishmael? Which ancient text says that Ishmael built the Kaaba? Which non-Islamic source says that Mecca was the center of Abrahamic monotheism?
Sixth: The comparison with the Torah is wrong here. The Torah presents its laws with a clear historical nation, the Israelites, Moses, Exodus, Sinai, the covenant, the priesthood, the sacrificial system, the prophets, and a continuous national history. In contrast, the Arab “pure religion” claims to be without a book, without a continuous prophetic record, without a preserved Sharia, and without independent historical documentation. These two things are not equal.
Seventh: “Like does not imitate” is a valid principle, but this principle cannot save everywhere. When a society already has the Kaaba, circumcision, hajj, talbiyah, sacrifice, iddah, marriage, divorce, and tribal laws, and later a new religion adopts these same things in the name of reform, is it perfectly legitimate to ask whether this is revelation or a new interpretation of the existing Arab religious and social system?
The fact is that Muslims first call the rituals of the Arab pre-Islamic era polytheistic, then when the continuity of these same rituals in the Islamic system is shown, they immediately call them “remnants of the Abrahamic religion.” This is a double standard. If they were all Abrahamic, why were the Arabs polytheists? And if they were polytheists, how can every ritual be purified by calling it Abrahamic?
Therefore, questioning the pre-existence of the Iddah, Hajj, Tawaf or Talbiyah is not a fallacy but a historical question. The answer will not come from emotions, titles and saying “the objector is a thief”. The answer will come only from evidence: Where was Islam before Muhammad? Where was the book of the Hanif religion? Where is the permanent historical evidence of Ishmael in Mecca? Where is the non-Islamic source of the Abrahamic construction of the Kaaba? If not all of this, then it is more accurate to say that Islam created its system by reinterpreting pre-existing Arab religious and social customs, not that all of history was already Islamic.
The beginning of Islam
and the Muhammadan revelation rests solely on hypothesis. According to Muhammad, something pressed down on him and he was so frightened that he went home trembling and asked his wife Khadijah to hide him in a blanket. Muhammad was completely unaware of what had pressed him down, nor did he know of any angels. Nawfal ibn Waraqah called the alleged object a demon, a demonic creature, or whatever it was, a demon, not an angel. Muhammad never returned to the Cave of Hira, nor did such an incident occur again. All subsequent traditions are fabricated. Muhammad's own relatives, including Nawfal ibn Waraqah, knew Muhammad well. They never believed in Muhammad. Muhammad learned the rest of Islam from the Jews of Medina and fabricated it, and all the religious practices that already existed in Arabia were immediately called "the Abrahamic religion" and made it Islamic. But where is the proof that it was commanded by Allah? Muhammad never met Allah, never saw Allah, never heard Allah, never gave Muhammad any instructions. The fact that the Arabs performed Hajj, performed Tawaf, sacrificed, or observed the Iddah does not prove that they were truly following the law of Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets.
First: There is no organized religion called “Islam,” no Islamic book, no Islamic law, no Islamic nation, no Islamic prophetic lineage, and no Arabic divine scripture before Muhammad. If the Arabs were truly followers of the Abrahamic religion, where was their book? Where was their law? Where are the names of their prophets? Which prophet came in the Arab historical record who called them to the God of the Torah? Merely taking a later Islamic tradition and pasting it onto history is not proof.
Second: The Bible does not show Ishmael settling in Mecca. Genesis 25:18 clearly states that the Ishmaelites settled “from Havilah to Shur, which is before Egypt by the way of Assyria.” This geography points to the areas of northern or northwestern Arabia, east of Egypt, and along the road to Assyria; there is no mention of Mecca, the Kaaba, Safa, Marwah, or Zamzam. If Ishmael built the Kaaba, where is the clear evidence of this in the Bible, Jewish history, early Christian sources, Assyrian records, Greek historians, or pre-Islamic Arabic writings?
Third: The religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs was not pure monotheism but a combination of idolatry, tribal gods, the idols of the Kaaba, Lat, Uzza, Manat, Hubal, sacrifices, vows, and polytheistic talbiyah. The Quran itself testifies that they believed in Allah as the Creator but also associated partners with Him: “And most of them do not believe in Allah except while they associate others with Him” (Yusuf 12:106). That is, just taking the name “Allah” does not prove any Abrahamic religion. The polytheists used to take the name of Allah, not God, they also used to say La ilaha, meaning there is no god but Allah, their entire system was idolatrous.
It's sad to think that all the souls lost in that war have been forgotten by those who benefited the most from it. People want "reparations" for slavery. I say that it has already been paid. It was paid in blood at first and second Bull Run, Gettysburg, Manassas, Fredericksburg, Chanslersville, and a hundred other battle fields across this nation. 360,000 Union Soldier paid you're "reparations" with their lives. So, to all the grifters out there looking for a payday, sorry, it's been paid.
@HOTMAGAX Stupid question. The President's wife was raised to be respectful and courteous. Obama is a gutter snipe who's only 2 emotions are hate and envy. In her life she has been disbarred and lost her license to practice law. She belongs right where she's at, a footnote in history.
We have been at war with Islam since the 1780s. You attacked us. You asked for this. The sooner that Islam is wiped out the better. We can play y'alls game just as good as you. Convert to Christianity, pay us a tax allowing you to exist, or die. Let's switch the places and see how you like it.
Now is the time for MASSIVE action. Sign the petition to DEMAND a Constitutional Amendment ending birthright citizenship for illegal invaders. Add your name TODAY. ⬇️