Nathan

Engineer, Thinker, Conservative, Christian, and Nerd.

Better to be honestly hated than falsely loved.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

Culture is NOT genetic. That much is clearly evident, as members of a single family might find themselves enmeshed in and integrated two cultures that differ, or even are diametrically opposed. It's not uncommon.

However, the question can be asked a bit more deeply.

Cultures are composed of the shared norms, stories, language, values, and histories of the people that comprise them. And as such, a few things happen:

People will find different ways to enact and integrate into their cultures, based on their unique strengths and weaknesses.

Cultures will reward people who are able to integrate into them, and whose virtues embody traits those cultures value.

So while culture isn't genetic, there's both interplay between genetics and culture, and cyclical reinforcement of genetics that support that culture.

A culture that reward violence and impulsivity will produce violent and impulsive people... a culture that rewards deliberation and intellect will produce smart, self-controlled people. Plop the child of group into the other and you will find that they can often acquire the virtues of the group they are raised in... but will still have to grapple with the traits of the group they came from.

Representation within a culture thereby becomes important - because it teaches people what to do with their abilities and impulses in a socially appropriate way, and warns them against the abuse of those traits. But representation, likewise, isn't a matter of skin but of soul - a matter of substance, not surface. The stories that resonate with us do not resonate with our skin, but our hearts, and anyone who imagines they can substitute one for the other degrades both the person and the group.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@Pond11892Girl @BreitbartNews Men helped create those borders and women have been active in tearing them down.

But let us both restore them regardless.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@AmyElli0ttDunne @KrispiLargo2 @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @JackieFrancesca *are worth

[Nathan @NStormRider]

I have never once even hinted at the idea that men do not bear responsibility for their sexual choices. I have, from the outset, simply insisted that men's right to say "no" to procreative sex (control your ejaculations) does not absolve women of their responsibility to choose partners who would be suitable for long term relationships and fatherhood, if THEY want to take the risk of potentially procreative sex.

I have insisted that ending a pregnancy with death is not a responsible outcome, whether it is a woman who chooses it unilaterally or a man who pressures her into it and buys the execution.

It has been HER contention from the outset that men's ability to reject female partners absolves women of sexual accountability. That women cannot commit a moral fault with abortion because men can say no to sex. Therefore men have the responsibility to care for their child if she keeps it but no standing to object to her destroying it, because they could have said no and prevented the pregnancy, and by saying yes they therefore became party to the risk that their partner would unilaterally destroy any offspring she might conceive.

I have made the argument that women choosing sexual partners who are with keeping around will encourage more of the best in men... She has taken this to mean that women are therefore ultimately completely responsible for the character of all men in society, not, as I have insisted, for using their influence well.

Men ultimately shape who they are. But God, I don't know who would ever want to be a better man for THIS one.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@KrispiLargo2 @AmyElli0ttDunne @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @JackieFrancesca She insists that "responsibility for one's influence," or "responsibility for one's choice of partner," equates to, "total responsibility for all of that part er's behavior."

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@KrispiLargo2 @AmyElli0ttDunne @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @JackieFrancesca Really it's because she's doing that exact thing, but, fuck it, I'll try to defend the premise she's set.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@AmyElli0ttDunne @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @KrispiLargo2 @JackieFrancesca My claim has been that women have a huge influence on shaping male behavior, especially male sexual behavior.

You have decided to make that an all or nothing question.

Can you back off the all or nothing switcheroo?

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@AmyElli0ttDunne @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @KrispiLargo2 @JackieFrancesca ... In order to withhold sex, you have to first be in a position where sex is expected of you. Yes or no?

[Nathan @NStormRider]

OK, thank you for at least vocalizing that position. You've established a principle, for once, that you don't think that people are obligated to use the influence they have over others for the good of society, which includes the good of relations between the sexes.

Since you've established at least that your principle is gender neutral - that is, men have no obligation to attempt to govern other men's behavior, nor women other women's behavior, nor men women's behavior, nor women men's, we've got to at least a point of some consistent interpretation.

You don't think women should use the influence they have over men to encourage men to think beyond the evening's pleasure. But you also don't think that men should use their own influence to do so either. Men simply are as they are, and women are as they are, and no one has any real obligation to behave in a pro-social way.

I don't know what conclusion I'm smuggling in, but the conclusion you've clearly arrived at is that no one is accountable the influence they have over anyone else's behavior

[Nathan @NStormRider]

... OK, in your opinion, if a man sees another man who's lying to women in order to have sex with them, does the first man have a responsibility to confront the liar, or, as this is a voluntary arrangement between two completely separate people, does the first man have a responsibility to stay out of it and allow both deceiver and deceived to continue as they are?

We're in this discussion about whether women's sexual decisions - in aggregate - affect men's sexual behavior - in aggregate - and whether that means women have a responsibility to choose partners that aren't irresponsible and unfit for long term relationships or parenting.

Clearly, the idea that women should have ANY responsibility for reinforcing good partner behavior or discouraging bad is a bridge to far for you, so I have to ask:

Do men have any responsibility to try to improve the behavior of other men, either by confronting them when they are doing something exploitative toward women, or by favoring them if they seem to be kind, caring, and responsible individuals?

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@RealDianeYap Ma'am, children are the future and neither men nor women's reproduction functions independently.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@AmyElli0ttDunne @Makoto_Says @TatumT_WG @KrispiLargo2 @JackieFrancesca There is not a person alive who does not require feedback - who does not need encouragement in their virtues or discouragement in their flaws.

Someone with an aptitude for leadership who has no one to set them straight will probably fuck up massively to everyone's detriment.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

How does it not follow?

1.) People's sexual choices can influence other people's behavior.

2.) Therefore, people have a responsibility to make their sexual choices in a way focuses that influence as positively as possible.

You're still operating from the position that either women have ALL of the responsibility for the behavior of anyone they might influence, or NONE of the responsibility for how their behavior encourages or discourages other people.

That dichotomy between complete abdication of responsibility or total accountability for another person's actions is something you brought to the table, not I.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

That one just doesn't believe there are women out there that actively want their men to physically defend their reputations.

That's an attitude that's more prevalent among poorer people and minorities, so for Makoto to decide that such a suggestion is a fantasy reveals more about the people they tend to spend their time with than the state of womankind.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

I think you kind of miss what "negotiation," consists of.

This is an example of a negotiation:

"Hey, wanna go grab margaritas after work?"

"Man, not feeling the alcohol tonight. But I'd love to hang!"

"Sweet. Still down to grab some food?"

"Sure. There's a little Indian place near the AMC. Wanna check it out, maybe catch Spiderman after?"

"Sounds awesome. 6 o'clock?"

"7, if you don't mind. Gives me time to walk the dog."

"Cool. I'll see you there!"

[Nathan @NStormRider]

How the heck is it not?

If a man must be responsible in order to have a shot at the woman he is interested in, and vice versa, how can that fail to encourage responsibility in men?

If men see irresponsible men easily and frequently bedding attractive women, what motivation has he to show more consideration and restraint?

All he has to do is shield himself from consequences, not prepare to shoulder them. As long as you have $600 for planned parenthood, why not just have sex with women you would never in your life consider supporting through motherhood?

Meet the minimum requirements.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

I was just saying that in any negotiation the person who has less riding in the outcome has more power in the discussion. Social media is replete with women who will openly announce that they are not even going to give men the opportunity to attempt to impress them if they do not meet a litany of physical and economic requirements, and if those men do not demonstrate their earning power up front.

I don't think that is healthy, but there are almost zero men who could reasonably state that they expect their female dates to take them somewhere expensive and pick up the tab starting out.

In a healthier dynamic, both partners are bringing positive value to the relationship in both their sexual interest and their material goods. Longstanding, positive arrangements rule, so the negotiation becomes more about specific details... But if it's hard to say that there is agreement, that is, consent, if no one discussed what they want.

Consent requires a "to what," and "to what", requires an offer be communicated and considered.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

I realize it is foreign to your way of thinking, but people move across the country, choose different colleges, choose different careers, change their style of dress, get and remove tattoos, and even quit or start substances in order to be seen more positively by either the opposite sex generally or by the person they are enamored with specifically.

In terms of motivations, love and sex are up there with basic survival.

[Nathan @NStormRider]

@JohnDoeSmith40 @DoomScroling No. Many of those things are not. The blank slate simply is false.

And regarding those qualities that can be taught,If you adopt you are not "child-free."