Joshua Jones

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@ManassehRJones You are a monergist, which is unbiblical and ahistorical.

Why are you blaming us when we do only what was decreed?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@papism101 @JohnGild88 It's not about binding the church, it's about the see of Peter defecting because an active heretic sits in it.

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@papism101 @JohnGild88 But the council condemned him for things he was doing while he was an active pope.

Can an active pope be judged as a heretic?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@OpStCyprian @PhilosophicDog @C2Antiquity You are a protestant named "operation St. Cyprian"? How does that work?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@eek4436 @PapiDavito @DoorDashThomist @Craig_Truglia Nothing that I can recall.

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

Who is he debating on St. Augustine? Calvinism isn't that difficult to debate. Has he said something wrong about Calvinism?

My point in asking these questions is that you need to be specific, and not put him in an "Indefinite time out" until he becomes an expert.

I am sure he has a blessing to do what he is doing, as does Jay, as does Cleave, etc.... if you really have an issue with what they are doing, you can reach out to the hierarchy.

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@eek4436 @PapiDavito @DoorDashThomist @Craig_Truglia Ok, what points is he making that are weak and easily refutable?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@eek4436 @PapiDavito @DoorDashThomist @Craig_Truglia Who's going to do that, and in regard to what subject?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@prncecarrington @parousia70 @Canonandcreed Do you not think there is something wrong the current state of the body?

Do you think people getting cancer is something that should remain in perpetuity?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

How does that at all entail that physical death is not a consequence of the fall?

You quoted other verses that use the word "dust" to DENY that physical death was being spoken of in Genesis 3.

I just quoted verses that say "return to dust" obviously means physical death. So, how would that not be in mind in Genesis 3 when the same word is used, and even the same phrasing is used?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

You are literally interpreting passages of The Bible using obscure prophecies 10 books away and just ignoring the actual narrative and logical structure of the passage itself.

I don't deny covenantal positioning, guilty consciences, degenerated human condition (in Adam), etc... but you are affirming this to the exclusion of the actual immediate meaning of the text.

You quoted like 4 verses, and said that is the consensus of The Prophets. I can quote verses too:

Job 34:14-15: "If he set his heart upon man, if He gather unto himself His spirit and His breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust." Echoing Genesis, God takes His Breath away and a man dies and decomposes.

Psalm 104:26-29: There go the ships: "there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season. That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good. Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust." This is referring to animals, so are they exiled from God's covenant and sent to Sheol?

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20: "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Do the beasts have a guilty conscience, and are therefore exiled from God's covenant and sent to Sheol?

This is all the same word for "dust".

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@prncecarrington @parousia70 @Canonandcreed Gnostic's deny the importance of physical matter, to the point of saying Christ didn't have a real body, and matter is evil.

How does that make me a gnostic?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@DoorDashThomist @Craig_Truglia No, why would we agree to that?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@eek4436 @PapiDavito @DoorDashThomist @Craig_Truglia How is it not going to last?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

The reason why he dies is explicit in the text, it is the condemnation for his sin.

The explicit reason he was exiled from The Garden was so that he wouldn't take of the tree and live forever in his current state - "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."

I know you would deny this, but you read The Bible like a gnostic.

Can you show me in the immediate context of the first 3 chapters of Genesis where "returning unto the dust" means exile instead of meaning physically dying?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@prncecarrington @parousia70 @Canonandcreed That's not answering my question.

Why did Adam die physically?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@prncecarrington @parousia70 @Canonandcreed So, when Adam died, was buried, and decomposed. Why did that happen?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@prncecarrington @parousia70 @Canonandcreed So, your contention is that "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground" does not refer to the current hardship of life ending in physical death?

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@lbeers37 @parousia70 @prncecarrington @Canonandcreed This is a bizarre conversation to me.

[Joshua Jones @OrthodoxyAG]

@parousia70 @prncecarrington @Canonandcreed "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground"

He is cursed to work until he dies. Where did he work in that state in The Garden of Eden?