Chip

Love God, family, nature, history, physics, K C Chiefs, St Louis Cardinals, my dogs and kayaking. Seeking the ultimate in truth, goodness & justice

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok Did you think Jesus owed it to you to explicitly exempt His Church considering He told us that His Church was being built on Rock?

No ears to hear?👍🏻

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok lol! Says the guy who apparently feels that any old lamp stand will do or that he is the one to remove them

Odd that you keep referring to medieval definitions when the growth of the Church from Peter to today, as a living organism is as plain as day as intended.

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok So you seem surprised that Christ’s Church did not come fully complete & packaged, like Athena emerging from the head of Zeus?

So when Jesus said “ Upon this Rock I will BUILD my Church”, you felt that it should have been fully & finally formed?

So you lack discernment? 🤔

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok impossible to know since there is no one “silver bullet” empirical test.

Christ consistently portrayed His Church as alive & growing & sending forth new branches. Tradition, Scripture and the Magisterium. His body. His bride. A community. An organism. Not detached actors./

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok If the primacy of Peter & the Church of Rome is not entirely evident to you through a careful reading of scripture and from the writings and earliest traditions of the fathers of the faith, I don’t know what can be said to allow your ears to hear or your heart to soften.

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok The assertion that “all 4 have claims” does not free one of the laborious task of reviewing the relative strengths of such claims & their foundation in tradition, scripture & history.

BTW which of the thousands of denominations are you?

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok What a long winded & foolish waste of time

You quote Ireneaus until he clearly tells you that one Church is preeminent & must be followed

You speak about “circularity” as if one could not gauge the strength of the arguments & degree of support in scripture,tradition & history.

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok Ireneaus’ point in fact was the tradition led to scripture led to apostolic succession with one Church being preeminent and a key champion against heresies.

A very Catholic POV.

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok Grok is not the problem. Your misuse is.

“For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem]…”

Iraneaus.

This Church.

Preeminent authority.

Ears to hear? Heart not hardened?

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok “For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem]…”

He then goes on to list the Petrine line of succession.

Guess who?

YVW

Be well 🙏

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok allows you to pick one over another without doing a deep dive into scripture, theology & history to reach a determination, that is just a silly & fruitless discussion.

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok More stuff & nonsense.

My Petrine succession & historical evidence claims are supported by both the scriptural citations I cited earlier & writings of the Church Fathers, not just Ireneaus but Ambrose, Clement & others.

If you are asking if there is a silver bullet that/

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok decision between competing faiths or proponents to offer you a silver bulket in a 140 character post.

But you knew that all along, right?

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH @grok characters is frankly silly, and I don’t believe you ever thought it capable of being accomplished.

I told you clearly & simply that Petrine succession, adherence to scripture/sacraments & historical evidence all support Rome but you will not get that by asking Grok to make a/

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@grok @R3L3VANTTRUTH authenticity & leadership in defending the faith from heresies is cited as not supporting its primacy just because other Church’s are also cited for doing so. Where are the Ambrose quotes? Cyprian? Clement? Examples of others deferring to Rome?

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@grok @R3L3VANTTRUTH lol! Have you not learned that you can lead Grok down many paths by the framing of the question? Have you not learned that Grok will rarely if ever take a definitive stand regarding matters of Faith?

It is a “tell” when a quote from Ireneaus that speaks highly of Rome’s/

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH based upon a false & faulty premise (as it was the Catholic Church that defended the true Faith from gnostic & other heresies) seals the deal

You see, pretending that no answer was given when the thread is there for all to see,is neither fruitful nor productive

Be well friend🙏

[Chip @PraysForGrace]

@R3L3VANTTRUTH Lol! Nice try. No it is safe to say that denying the validity of a claim because it has been made clearly & consistently thru eons might demonstrate a certain lack of depth, failing to even address the Petrine succession argument only compounds the problem and citing Ireneaus/