@Dargo282@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 You're denying the conditions of the economic system you live under, which is way more "flat-earth level BS" than anything I said. You can make claims that the exploitation inherent to capitalism is a necessary evil of some kind, but not deny it exists. You are fooling yourself.
@WellitHappened1@davanemec@philosophymeme0 work is work, it can be organized hierarchically, horizontally, or be done individually. Locke's belief is that those who do the labor transform the natural resources into their private property. I'm a communist, I want to abolish private property, so ofc I have my own thoughts.
@WellitHappened1@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Who is going to work the farm? The workers who work the farm? You don't seem to understand I'm referencing John Locke's labor theory of property.
@Dargo282@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Obviously I'm a communist and I never pretended to be neutral, the fact you think I'm playing word games shows you have never read anything on the subject in your life because I'm using fairly standard communist language.
@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 You seem to not understand capitalism, I'm describing the relationship to production people have under capitalism. You are getting emotional about a description.
@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 People have always needed to produce things and labor to survive, the relationship people have to that production has changed throughout history and it will change again, for better or worse.
@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Start your own business, where you expect people to work for you who must sell their labor to you in order to survive.
Find a new job, where you will be paid the same market rate for your labor.
Your work is always worth more than the market rate, otherwise there is no profit.
@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 You're free to sell your labor to someone else, who will buy it at market value under market conditions. You aren't free to decide to start working if your means of survival depends on selling your labor. Lack of capital, lack of ownership, stops you from starting a business.
@Pp46647Pp@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Cooperatively owned businesses operate for profit as it is still private property owned by the Co-op. Contract workers are still paid a wage, they just aren't protected as such by federal law. They sell their labor power to survive. It is about the relationship to production.
@str0mback@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Getting paid in the form of wages isn't profit. They work because they must sell their labor power as a commodity to survive, allowing owners to profit. That is exploitation. It's not a moral condemnation, it's how the system works.
@pacman101371702@davanemec@philosophymeme0 farmers profit, the agricultural workers he pays a wage to actually work do not profit. They subsist, barely. Free association of free producers is an alternative.
@WellitHappened1@davanemec@philosophymeme0 Do you think that the agricultural workers that are exploited by farmers should own the land and produce they are working on?
@Pp46647Pp@davanemec@philosophymeme0 "farmers" hire agricultural workers, who subsist on a wage (if that let's be honest), while the property owner is the one who profits. If you want to pretend farmers do all the work that's on you. The solution is cooperative control by free association.
@IntrepidAstrea pretty sure none of these people are "leftists" at all lmao. ACP can't even be consistent in their own arguments ( "communism isn't leftist" "leftism is western liberal mental illness or whatever" )
Campists would rather westerners self-flagellate online and discourage people within the imperial core from organizing against their governments than they would organize real people with complex backgrounds. On the ground, people aren't perfect. Your echo chamber is irrelevant.