Backpacker80

Devoted disciple of Christ. Father, Husband, Veteran and backpacking enthusiast.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@johnshircliff My mistake. The issue remains. He was under intense pressure to manifest what Whitmer and Cowdery had seen. Remember, these were already converts who had been psychologically prepped by Smith to experience a vision of the plates.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

Smith actively hid the plates from only but a select few. Why? In the Bible, God never hides his miracles.

If the plates are such good proof, why don't Mormons believe in James Strange's plates? He showed them to a lot more than 11 people.

[Nate Alder @AlderNate]

Can we see the Ark of the Covenant?

Can we see the stone tablets Moses brought down from Sinai?

Can we see the original manuscripts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

Can we see the cross Jesus was crucified on?

Can we see the empty tomb?

Can we see the resurrected Christ?

Can we see the miracles He performed?

Can we see the Garden of Eden?

Can we see Noah's Ark?

Can we see the burning bush?

Can we see the rod of Aaron that budded?

Can we see the manna preserved from the wilderness?

Can we see the angel Gabriel?

Can we see the Mount of Transfiguration event?

Can we see Pentecost?

Yet Christians accept all of those things based on witness testimony and faith.

The irony is that the Book of Mormon actually has more direct witnesses than many biblical events. Eleven men publicly testified they saw or handled the plates, and several maintained that testimony even after leaving Joseph Smith and the Church.

The question isn't whether you can see the plates today. The question is whether the witnesses were telling the truth.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@johnshircliff - Cowdery was only able to see what the others saw after several attempts suggesting these experiences were manifested under directed pressure from Smith. These were already committed converts. It's not hard to see how they might have been manipulated. 2/

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@johnshircliff You misunderstood. I think it's quite plausible that the 3 witnesses believe they had visionary experiences. I also believe it is not implausible, especially in the cultural mileau of the Great Awakening and under the emotional manipulation of JS, that they were not real.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@johnshircliff But Strang's plates proves that someone can easily produce fake plates that are good enough to fool the converted. It completely undermines the impact of the 8 witnesses testimony. They could have easily been looking at convincing forgeries.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@AlderNate You say that "truth isn't determined by crowd size" while also citing a "worldwide movement" as evidence for the truth of Mormonism. 🤷3/

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@AlderNate I think the existence of Strang's plates shows how easy it is to fabricate something that's convincing to the converted. The witnesses never recanted because they still believed the plates were real, not because they knew they were forgeries. 1/

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@AlderNate Here's a handful of Smith's prophecies that failed, not to mention the total debacle of a false translation the Book of Abraham was. 2/

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@logicalrage @mdwfmom @JackNapierNot Dude, she's my wife and not only am I ok with her being on X helping me engage stupid people and ideas, I encourage her to be. You think she's going to get picked up by some random on X!? That's so pathetic! 😆

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@ThoughtfulSaint @ThyHolyHerald Questioning the traditional Christian idea of Jesus's glorified body and then pretending that's equivalent to the Mormon concept of exaltation is beyond disingenuous. Please stop this desperate attempt to make your church sound mainstream. No one's buying it.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@ThoughtfulSaint It's a glorified body, Jacob. God Logic explained this to you during your debate. You pretending this doesn't make sense is tiresome.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@JohnnyTani3 @darwintojesus If you only take this one piece of evidence, sure. But that's not what Daniel is doing. It's part of a larger cumulative case for God that asks, "what is the best explanation for what we're observing?" We do this all the time with things we'll never be able to ultimately prove.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@TheApe_Theist

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@preacher325194 @mdwfmom @JackNapierNot (Taps glass)

That's because you have none

Thx for playing.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@preacher325194 @mdwfmom @JackNapierNot So no biblical backing whatsoever. Only insults. Why am I not surprised?

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@preacher325194 @mdwfmom @JackNapierNot What makes you think I'm a servant in my own house? My wife has my explicit permission to engage theological idiots on X. Got those Bible verses yet, my guy?

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@preacher325194 @mdwfmom @JackNapierNot Then why are you shaming her? I'm her husband, so perhaps you can provide ME the chapter and verse.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@abbythelibb_ Lord, protect Abby and her sweet baby by the power of your righteous right hand and bring them both through this healthy and whole for your glory. Amen.

[Backpacker80 @SWoodl18571]

@IornJaw @Tra296 The creeds are merely a summation of what we find in Scripture. As as for what Jesus taught, I agree. Jesus taught that he was God... Not A god... GOD.