SemperMontani

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@CatholicDrip___ Why doesn't actual scripture use that passage to say Joseph never "knew her"

If the point was to actually introduce PVM, the until clause is the worst way to do it

Your "debunk" is not a proof, but a distraction. Yes 'until' can mean more things. It doesn't require YOUR meaning

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand Im not declaring it as biblical truth.

I am pointing out the flaw in the man-created biblical claim of pvm

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand When you bring a particular passage of scripture into a defense of PVM, then maybe our backgrounds will come into play.

Right now you aren't bringing scripture, you're bringing the words of mere men.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I am asking a question. I'm not declaring biblical truth unsupported by scripture on my own word.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand Presuming you are not taking the Lord's name in vain in that post, your answer is the existence of Jesus Christ is supposed to automatically mean Mary NEVER had marital relations with her husband?

How is that the logical conclusion??

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand If you believe PVM the meme goes against your beliefs

If you don't, the meme merely takes the logical inference from the implications of Joseph waiting for marital relations UNTIL the birth of Jesus. Many translations fill out the scripture with additional words for full meaning

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand Thank goodness this didn't turn into a long discussion 😂

And the meme is only blasphemous if you believe in PVM.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I meant long ago in this conversation.

Now you're avoiding actually defending PVM by making light of my challenge to it.

It makes it look like you have no idea why PVM but are used to putting blind biblical level faith in fallible mortal's words

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand Outside scripture:
WHY they didn't she was pregnant

Scripture is clear they had no sex during the pregnancy. Every other aspect of their marital relations are outside of scripture and can only be inferred.

You're pushing a supposed "truth" pertaining to things outside scripture

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I challenge any man-created "truth" until a suitable scripture basis for it exists. In this conversation you've expected me to blindly accept a man-created "truth" that appears to have absolutely no foundation in scripture, and it doesn't follow historical traditions of life then

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I agree it was *a* purpose for Mary's life. To some her entire existence up as only being born to birth Jesus, and then she ceased to have purpose is a weird perspective

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I didn't tell you. I addressed the question by saying not give you my denomination or background because my background and your background do not change the scripture I've been attempting to discuss with you, they are just a distraction from the topic.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand No you have not given any biblical basis for celibacy.

You pointed towards fallible men of the church deciding it probably happened but without having any foot in scripture.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand I've addressed this multiple times in other threads with you

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand You and I are speaking.

You use PVM as a tool in our discourse, but staunchly refuse to defend PVM with me, although you state you do defend it. You just won't do it here.

This is a complete waste if you refuse to answer questions directly tied to this conversation.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand A "fact"?

What makes it a fact? Certainly a fact would have a basis in scripture. Please point to scripture that supports yourfact hood its facthood.

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand PVM was brought in long ago. It was a strong part of your issue with the meme directly claiming they ultimately consummated their marriage.

You called people ignorant for not believing PVM but you refuse to defend PVM when challenged on it directly?

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand Who says there was intent either way.

You've challenged that the angel didnt tell him to wait at all ever. Maybe God didn't care if they had sex or not, but Joseph felt weird having sex with the Messiah inside.

All this is WAY outside scripture....just like PVM

[SemperMontani @SemperMont21910]

@EQualit31385573 @SoWhatAaaand No, not already addressed.

You have not provided any scripture to support PVM, or directly addressed that there is no scripture supporting it

I did directly address your denomination question. I told you our respective sects don't change what the Bible says that we can point to