@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery Nope, and you didn't answer my question for the 3rd time. Again, if the Church says you don't have to believe, what would be those possible reasons for the Church to allow you not to believe????? ANSWER THE QUESTION!
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery You didn't answer my question again. There's no false dichotomy. If you don't have to believe, as the Church says, what would be those reasons????
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery You didn't answer my question. If the Church allows you not to believe in a private revelation, what would those possible reasons be if not fraud, lies, or demonic deception????
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery Now we know your problem. If someone doesn't have to believe in a private revelation, what would those reasons possibly be but fraud, lies, demonic deception????
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery Look at Portugal now. The highest divorce in the world. Almost total apostasy, too. Fatima keeps them there. Listen, believe in Fatima. Your arguments against me are nothing.
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery You're assuming it. I'm not. I could give you many hundreds of attested miracles of the novus ordo, too. You're proving nothing but that you accept some things and dismiss others like we all do.
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery You don't have to believe in the Shroud or the miracles of St. Vincent Ferrer. I would try to answer the objections, but I most certainly wouldn't do what you and Lavery are doing and presume the worse with Catholic brethren. It's a private revelation, not a doctrine.
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery That's your opinion and you may hold it. I don't think it's the greatest public miracle since biblical times. I don't think it comes close. The Shroud of Turin is far greater! St. Vincent Ferrer converted thousands of Muslims and Jews in a few sermons. Again, far greater.
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery I've given you clear statements and you keep changing the subject. You're asking something I can only speculate since I can't know the answer. I suspect it's both. However, if the documentation is false, then the conclusion would be different. Do I have to believe in Fatima?
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery Believe in Fatima Kenneth. That is your right as a Catholic! You don't have to agree with me. You may believe despite what the actual documentation says about it.
@kennhistoria@observeratus@FrLavery There are numerous medically attested miracles to all the novus ordo saints. We believe those things that support our beliefs and discount those that don't. We're not going to go anywhere with this. Pope Pius X already thought antichrist might have been in the world in his day.
@FrLavery@Jewelsroses1985@kennhistoria I made it clear that Fatima was approved and you can't say there's anything wrong with it doctrinally or morally. You most certainly can believe it. I was presenting what is documented and asking the questions. Saying I'm on a trend to apostasy is was overboard!