There's a big problem with your analogy, and it's that it doesn't describe the Trinity at all. It describes something else entirely.
Look at what you actually said. Light is one thing with two behaviors. It acts like a wave in one setup and a particle in another, depending on how you measure it. One subject, different behaviors, different contexts.
Now map that onto God. One God who appears as the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit depending on the context. That's something called modalism, aka Sabellianism. Your own church condemned it around 1,800 years ago. Why? Because the Trinity requires all 3 Persons to be distinct and fully God at the *same time*, eternally. Not one at a time depending on the situation.
And your own grammar works against you too. You said light is *a* particle. That little "a" matters. If I was to run the creed through the same grammar, I'd get "The Father is a god, The Son is a god, The Holy Spirit is a god." Count them. That's 3 gods. And Ridvan already said upthread that this reading is off limits.
So your analogy gives me modalism and your grammar gives me 3 gods. Both are heresies by your own church's standards. Which one are you defending?
Hey @grok Does the Qur'an claim that the Jews believed that Ezra is Son of God or that only some Jewish sects believed in that? Were there Jewish sects who believed that Ezra was Son of God? If so what is their name and where di they lived?
Also did the Jewish tribes of Madina/Yathrib have an issue with that verse? Did they claim the opposite?
@koshercockney What a dirty f**king liar. This is the bullshit Israel is spending $730 million hard earned US Taxpayer dollars on.
https://t.co/xa3YMd4RO9
@AdamBla33573194@ApostateProphet What?! Muslims definitely do not translate limbs and such to mean actual limbs. The normative sunni belief is that anytime God mentions a limb in Quran or Hadith, it is metaphorical.
Or... Just hear me out!
There's a trapdoor you're standing on! That trapdoor springs open because you're a ๐คก๐คก๐คก๐คก๐คก.
This "Dilemma" has been debunked a hundred times. Here Shaykh Hamza surgically tears it apart:
https://t.co/0zukuRAoaN
The Islamic dilemma is something only dumb as bricks apologist use. Like Dr of Bullshitology David Wood and his high school drop out protege Avery.
Yeah they had France as their handholder in the 50s and 60s.
Obama is just as complicit as every other US president.
The only US president who saw through the Israelis was assassinated.
Isn't it a little bit curious how a highschool teacher becomes a millionaire financial advisor?!
๐คก๐คก๐คก
"Hedonistic." Pull the file.
Age 25. Marries Khadijah. Older than him. Twice previously married. A mother. His *employer*. She proposed to *him*. Then he stays with her alone for 25 years until she dies, in a society with zero limits on polygamy. Hedonists don't spend their entire prime with one older widow.
After her: Sawdah, elderly widow. Umm Salamah, widow with four kids. Zaynab bint Khuzaymah, "mother of the poor." Juwayriyyah, whose marriage freed a hundred captive families (Abu Dawud 3931). Umm Habibah, stranded refugee. Widows. Divorcees. Treaty marriages. A safety net, not a harem.
His bed: a woven mat that left its marks on his side while Caesar slept in silk. Umar wept at the sight (Muslim 1479). His family never ate their fill of bread three days straight (Bukhari 5416). He died with his armor pawned for barley (Bukhari 2916). That's your "hedonist."
And Jesus? He's *my* prophet too. Islam commands me to love him and forbids ranking games: "We make no distinction between any of them" (Quran 2:136). The Prophet ๏ทบ said he is the nearest of all people to the son of Mary, and that the prophets are brothers (Bukhari 3443). So no, I won't play prophet vs prophet. Same God. Different assignments. Jesus: a spiritual reformer sent to one nation under a Law already in place. Muhammad ๏ทบ: sent to all mankind, so his mission carried law, treaties, war, markets, family, everything. You're comparing job descriptions, not moralities. And whatever framework you think Jesus preached, the people carrying his book needed until 1833 to find abolition in it. The lag is theirs, not his.
What you and @FaithUnpacked said is completely false.
To save the Trinity, Christians have exactly two moves.
Move 1 is special pleading through Christian metaphysics: "you can't count our God because of what *we* believe about His nature."
Move 2 is something called relative identity: "same God, different Persons."
Either way, the floor is now open for Hinduism to present itself as a monotheistic religion. If your doctrine earns an exemption from counting, so does theirs. If "same God, different Persons" counts as one, then "same Brahman, different devas" counts as one too.
So which is it? Is Hinduism monotheistic now, or does your God follow the same rules as everyone else's?
Let's name the frame first: presentism. You're grading the 7th century with a 2026 rubric that your own grandchildren will shred. That's a moral fashion report, not a moral argument.
Your standard moves. A century ago the progressive consensus championed eugenics; the US Supreme Court blessed forced sterilization 8 to 1 in Buck v. Bell (1927). Women entering the workforce scandalized the same generation. Both verdicts flipped within a lifetime. If "current consensus" is your yardstick, you don't have a standard. You have a timestamp.
Now the receipts on slavery.
Pre-Islamic Arabia, Rome, Persia, India: slavery was universal with a thousand entry points. Kidnapping, debt, piracy, raiding. Islam sealed every entry except one: prisoners of a legitimate war. And the Quran's standing instruction for those captives is to free them graciously or ransom them (47:4). Sell a free man into slavery? The Prophet ๏ทบ said Allah Himself is your opponent on Judgment Day (Bukhari 2227).
Treatment: feed them what you eat, clothe them what you wear, never overburden them (Bukhari 30). Strike a slave once and your expiation is his *freedom* (Muslim 1657). Separate a captive mother from her child and Allah separates you from your loved ones (Tirmidhi 1283). The Prophet's ๏ทบ dying words: "The prayer, the prayer, and those your right hands possess" (Abu Dawud 5156).
And the exits are everywhere. Broken oath: free a slave (5:89). Zihar: free a slave (58:3). Accidental killing: free a slave (4:92). Broken Ramadan fast: free a slave (Bukhari 1936). Any slave can demand a contract to buy his own freedom, and zakat funds it by divine decree (24:33, 9:60). The Quran calls freeing a slave the steep ascent itself (90:12-13).
That's an abolition engine, not a plantation economy. The Prophet ๏ทบ freed the slaves who came into his possession; Ibn al-Qayyim lists them by name in Zad al-Ma'ad. Zayd chose staying with him over going home with his own father. Bilal went from tortured African slave to the first muezzin of Islam, giving the adhan from the roof of the Kaaba. Find me that trajectory in Jamestown.
On Aisha: same error, worse homework.
The operative threshold for marriage in *every* premodern civilization was puberty, not a calendar number. England's first statutory age (1275) was effectively 12, and it stayed 12 until 1875. In 1880s America most states set it at 10 to 12. Delaware: 7. The very concept of "adolescence" as a protected stage past puberty is a late-1800s invention. You're condemning a man for not anticipating a legal category your own civilization didn't have until 150 years ago.
It wasn't a one-off either. Amr ibn al-As fathered his son Abdullah at roughly 11 to 13 (Dhahabi, Siyar; Ibn Hajar, Tahdhib). Aisha was betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut'im, a pagan household, *before* the Prophet ๏ทบ. Her own society, friend and enemy alike, considered her marriageable. His enemies catalogued his every alleged flaw: poet, sorcerer, madman. Not one of them, pagan, Jewish, or Christian, objected to this marriage. Because in their entire world there was nothing to object to.
And the outcome? Aisha became the greatest female scholar in Islamic history. 2,200+ narrations. Senior companions took rulings from her for decades. She defended her husband until her last breath. Show me the victim in that biography.
So no, the Prophet ๏ทบ doesn't need "a pass." He needs an honest judge, and you're not one until you answer this: by *what standard* do you condemn him? If morality evolves, your verdict expires with the decade. If it's objective, name its source. Pick one.
You are confusing two distinct concepts.
Abu Bakr is the most excellent individual in the Ummah.
When Isa (peace be upon him) returns, he will be a follower of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Nevertheless, this fact does not diminish his status as one of the most resolute messengers.
It is actually an honor to the status of Muhammad SAW that Isa AS follows him.