Juju

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Hello world!

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@PaulSpacey @DaPriziestHorse @Glendocious It is American exceptionalism to assume that none of the elite level soccer players could compete with American football players or basketball players in raw athleticism.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Messi is a one-off in any sport. The stories about him and growth hormones and all that border on myth at this point but he’s a god in any discipline, sports or no. I honestly don’t think there’s an athlete comparable, definitely not in my generation. Maybe Jordan or Bolt or Phelps, but what he’s doing now just defies everything.

Young Messi, if you forced me.. pace, balance, vision I would equate to Barry Sanders who’s the best American Football player I’ve seen so I would put him in that sort of hyper-athletic tier. Barry was 5’8 among giants.

Mbappe, prime Cristiano, Haaland, Bale, Zlatan, those are guys whose raw athleticism could carry them far into the upper echelons of any team sport. I would certainly stack those guys against ANYONE America has produced in any of our major team sports.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Environment and coaching is most definitely part of the equation. Our academies are infantile. The oldest MLS academy is 20 years old but they continue to turn higher and higher profits selling players, you can look that up. American coaching will be the last to catch up. I’ve said many times we will need to continue to import coaches for a long time, but our country has shown the ability to build out robust sporting infrastructure there has just not been the appetite to turn the resources toward soccer until the last couple of decades.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@SomosAnalistas_ Panenkas are the coldest thing in soccer. Zidane hitting one against Buffon in a World Cup final will forever be the biggest nut drop in history.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Well said. When a lot of us say more of Americas great athletes need to play for us to progress as a program, this is what that means.

A lot of really talented kids who don’t have the physical traits to go far in sports that rely on outright size and speed wash out of sports in high school or at best college when they may be able to take soccer much further.

I’m talking about kids who are quick, agile, technical, coordinated, driven, etc. A 5’9 high schooler may run point for an AAU basketball team but if they don’t grow another 6 inches, it probably won’t go any further than that. We need more of those kids dribbling a soccer ball early instead of a basketball.

[Dre Baldwin | #WorkOnYourGame @DreAllDay]

Confusing athleticism with sport-specific skill.

Of course soccer requires technical ability.

So does basketball.
So does football.
So does baseball.

The best players in every sport combine elite athleticism with elite skill.

The discussion is about where America's elite athletes enter the pipeline in the first place— not whether skill matters.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@adamOsaussies Right. Because the only sports that are really an option to A LOT of those kids are football and basketball.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

First off, let’s establish that “best athlete” doesn’t just mean bigger stronger faster. Body control, agility, coordination, stop start acceleration, these all factor in as well whether you’re 5’5 or 6’5. This isn’t even to mention all of the soft skills necessary: drive, competitiveness, toughness, etc.

So, if you’re taking my position as “every 6’3 240 lb linebacker can be slotted into center back,” that’s far from what I’m saying.

Second, the idea that the best teams in the world are populated by 5’8 160 scrubs who just practice dribbling more than everyone, that’s also just wrong.

Since you mentioned Spain, I’d ask if you’ve ever watched a defender try to nudge Iniesta off the ball in traffic and seen his balance and body control? Or if you’ve seen Sergio Ramos rise above an entire scrum off a corner and head the ball away from danger? The list goes on.

@PaulSpacey mentioned Cole Palmer. I’d argue that Cole Palmer does have at least an excellent if not elite athletic profile. His fluidity and body control complement his techical ability, they don’t oppose it. That combination is what’s allowed him to become arguably the most dangerous attacking mid in the world it’s not JUST that he’s trained more or with better coaches, although I agree that’s a major consideration too (criminal that Tuchel left him out btw).

These are all just eye-test from me so take it for what you want. There’s probably a more technical way to measure athleticism even beyond top speed and vertical similar to NFL scouts measuring the acuteness of the angle between a players shin and the field when they turn a corner (just as one example).

If they grow up in the US, maybe some of these type guys get funneled into soccer, but it’s more likely they end up like Hunter Renfrow or Cole Beasley or Nate Robinson: guys with excellent athletic profiles and competitive drive, but not the raw traits (height weight speed) to really conquer their sport, but enough of what translates to soccer to still touch the top level.

The more of these players who see soccer as a real option, the deeper and more competitive our talent pool will be and the point is, just on sheer numbers, the United States and its sporting infrastructure produce MANY more than any other country.

On top of all that, there’s always room for a couple of Allen Iversons, Saquon Barkleys, or Steph Currys: guys whose superior raw ability, technical genius, creativity, and drive allowed them to become some of the most influential athletes in the world. We get a couple of those, and it’s ballon dor level stuff.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Since 2015 the women have won 2 World Cup titles and an Olympic title. We’ll see how they get on next year, but I suspect Emma Hayes will have them ready to compete for a title again.

They’re still remarkably successful, a serious contender for any trophy available to them, in part because soccer has long been a top option for elite female team sport athletes in the US.

Playing in the western hemisphere will hurt them because certainly UEFA is much more competitive, and the growth of women’s basketball may drain their talent pool over time I think, but we’ll see.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@1of1cardss @PaulSpacey He moved to Villarreal this year and made 9 appearances including 3 starts.

He’ll compete for a starting spot next season in La liga and play Champions League games since they finished 3rd.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

If Allen Iverson grew up in the favelas of Rio instead of Norfolk Virginia and was named Iversinho, he would have been a multiple ballon dor winner and one of the most influential futebolers of his era.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@Steve__Paxton If Lukaku or Onana grew up in Texas, they’d be on NFL rosters right now.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

This is not true BUT, I would say that basketball more directly aligns with the type of coordination and body control needed in soccer than football.

To that end, there are many many 5’8 to 6’ players who wash out after college or even high school basketball only because they don’t have the physical traits to make the NBA. For the vast majority of these guys, soccer was never an option.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Elite is a strong word and probably going to turn a lot of soccer people off but yes, widening the pool of American athletes SIGNIFICANTLY increases the odds that we field a top 6 or 8 men’s national team.

On the flip side, guys like Ronaldo and Mbappe would be in the top 5% of NFL athletes. They are off the charts too.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@DJ_CPFC @PaulSpacey This is a reasonable way to look at it. It’s a combination of both.

To shrug off the sheer ability of this country to produce such a wide variety of elite level performers is crazy.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@PaulSpacey And there are specific examples of elite American athletes who I think would have translated exceptionally well to soccer and maybe have been among the most influential players in the world, but certainly it’s not everybody.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Soccer is the only sport I played competitively. I swam for a time, but otherwise I played from age 8 to 18 on select level club teams and a state championship level high school team. I’ve stayed involved in the sport for many years since either playing or coaching.

I understand the environment matters. Culture matters. But this country produces more elite athletes across a wider range of disciplines than anywhere in the world.

If we wound the clock back 150 years and put soccer on the same plane as basketball and football, when they were coming online and building out their infrastructure here, this country would have produced multiple ballon dor winners and probably have at least 2 stars over the crest.

A lot of elite level athletes in terms of both raw athleticism, competitiveness, work ethic who washed out after high school or college football and basketball because they didn’t have the physical traits would have funneled into soccer.

Maybe we’re talking about 2 different things. I’m not saying every 6’8 NBA player would automatically slot in the USMNT team sheet, but there’s A LOT of guys who don’t have the physical traits but do have the raw athletic ability and/or make up to be very high level performers, but the only path they have to express that is football or basketball.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

I’m not arguing that being a great raw athlete makes up for the environment, but to deny that funneling more elite level raw athletes into the system increases the likelihood of hitting on a world class player is missing the forest for the trees. It’s most definitely PART of the solution.

Cubarsi is great, but if he grew up in Texas he’s probably playing slot receiver for the Longhorns.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

Buddy, you don’t think the 5’9 point guard leading his mid major college basketball team to the sweet 16 could have gone further playing soccer?

They’re athletes. You teach them a skill when they’re young. It’s not some pre-ordained thing that they’re better at shooting a basketball than kicking a soccer ball. It’s just coordination, body control, agility, athlete stuff translated in a specific way.

[Juju @TalkJuJu]

@BrettKollmann Yes.