My pleasure! If you’re interested in digging deeper into everything Satoshi actually said about money, I recommend this content. it shows how he really defined bitcoin as an asset:
https://t.co/6CNGYUOj3W
As for your question, those protocols you mentioned aren’t exactly aligned with what Satoshi said. They’d still fall short of what he referred to as finding a "clever" or "smart" way “for not having to supply and manage money”, a dynamic smart money system with self-organizing currency supply. See that in the original Satoshi messages you'll find in that content.
It wasn’t just Hal Finney, Satoshi Nakamoto himself explicitly defined bitcoin as base money, or concretely basic P2P currency as synonym, in the context of a dynamic smart money system with representative elastic currencies built on top:
"I see Bitcoin as a foundation and first step if you want to implement programmable P2P social currencies like Marc’s ideas and others discussed here. First you need normal, basic P2P currency working. Once that is established and proven out, dynamic smart money is an easy next step. I love the idea of virtual, non-geographic communities experimenting with new economic paradigms."
To think freely and critically about the #FutureOfMoney—whether it’s bitcoin alone, a ₿itcoin-backed standard, fiat 2.0 with CBDCs, free-banking models, a return to the gold standard, or anything else—you need to understand the powers behind any currency system shaping its value.
Today, let's focus on the first power:
#MONETARY #POLICY
If you want to dive deeper in an easy and accessible way into one of the key pieces of the analytical framework to free your critical thinking about money, this one’s for you!
https://t.co/4xUvHW5iCD
To think freely and critically about the #FutureOfMoney—whether it’s bitcoin alone, a ₿itcoin-backed standard, fiat 2.0 with CBDCs, free-banking models, a return to the gold standard, or anything else—you need to understand the powers behind any currency system shaping its value.
Today, let's focus on the first power:
#MONETARY #POLICY
If you want to dive deeper in an easy and accessible way into one of the key pieces of the analytical framework to free your critical thinking about money, this one’s for you!
https://t.co/4xUvHW5iCD
@d3h3d_@a_vaunt@SuiNetwork@ikadotxyz@WalrusProtocol Your words show that you haven't spent a minute looking at the Radix stack. And that's fine...
But we invite you to take some time to explore, so you can have a more meaningful conversation with the ecosystem.
No way. Any security guarantee you can enshrine at the full stack level is way better than leaving it to code bugs from any random object developer.
Same goes for wallets with smart accounts, ownership of tokens is far more secure when it’s guaranteed and recognized across all layers of the technology, rather than relying on a single programmed object controlled by one developer.
That’s a strong take on security guarantees. something you won’t find in much of today’s Web3 tech.
@d3h3d_@a_vaunt@SuiNetwork@ikadotxyz@WalrusProtocol Trustless bitcoin bridging in Ika definitely needs to marry with trustless Self-Sovereign Currency in a Bitcoin-Backed Standard.
that combo is the future, my friend!
Thanks for sharing these insights on PTBs, I'll dive deeper on that.
By the way, we work with the same state data model as Sui, an object-oriented data model, so no biases here. That's why I shared there are two networks where these real world markets can live: Radix and Sui.
My last point is that, yes, an asset can be sold in multiple markets, and that makes total sense, just like it does today. Many companies sell their products simultaneously on Amazon, eBay, and Aliexpress, for example.
We love this important debate you both @d3h3d_@a_vaunt are having here.
Important for the real adoption of these technologies. As of today, it seems like only two networks are truly on the path to onboarding real world use cases, starting from their data model and scaling all the way up the stack.
Specifically, the use case @HardMoneyProjec focuses on is self-sovereign money. Money, to actually be self-sovereign as Satoshi envisioned, depends on real on-chain commerce secured on a distributed network.
That brings us to this example question to show why scalability for complex transactions (swaps) actually matters, a lot! for the real world adoption of the future.
If Web3 is about returning ownership of asset logic (rights) to users through tokens' state secured on distributed networks, ask yourself:
how many swaps per second would be needed if we combined EVERY ONLINE SHOPPING CART on today’s web?
(Probably the biggest use case of the internet right now). Imagine, not even counting financial markets...
Because every time you buy something in a shopping cart, you’re securing a swap: the transfer of money ownership on the buyer's side for assets ownership of all kinds from the seller on the other. That could be 2, 5, 10, or +50 assets swapped in a single bundle, atomic transaction.
So, what kind of swaps per second numbers could we be talking about here? Do you have estimates?
If you don’t believe the absolute control part, just check whether it’s actually the plan, straight from the mouth of Agustín Carstens, General Manager of the BIS (the entity whose mission is to "act as a bank for central banks").
https://t.co/Rr7cSCLkIk
"For @adam3us , this is more than just a battle between Bitcoin and CBDCs. It’s about freedom."
Important to remember the critical times we’re living in. We either move toward freedom or total control.
🙌 Here @HardMoneyProjec we’re working for the first.
The OG cypherpunk and founder of Blockstream talks about building a bitcoin-based financial system and why state-issued digital currency is nothing like BTC.
Back is a speaker at Consensus Hong Kong Feb. 18-20.
Interview with @leah_cb
https://t.co/PHZRHxf2AM
Totally agree!
We don’t know exactly how much Satoshi knew about economics, but everything written on the subject is sound and, as you well pointed out, rooted in first principles. After all, history has never seen a commodity as base money with absolute scarcity. One that, as Satoshi described, functions like a base metal or a "basic P2P currency" on which to build self-organizing communities experimenting with new economic paradigms.
There are definitely things that align with economic theory, like Satoshi’s writings on what’s needed to sustain over time and stabilize currency value and prices, including the fact that he explicitly mentioned, twice, that he tried to program it but couldn’t make it work just with software.
I highly recommend this project and readings, Saifedean. Sure you’re going to enjoy it.