gamblr

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

ICP uses a highly sophisticated security and decentralization model, which all blockchains that wish to function as clouds will need to copy.

Justin's latest misunderstandings (below) provide a good segue to talk about this, and share some expertise that even networks he's invested in might use.

1. Node count does not equal security or independence from centralized actors.

The claim that the number of nodes in a proof-of-stake network reflects decentralization and security is only an attractive idea that boils down to industry folklore and marketing. The node count doesn't matter per se, as I explain below.

For networks that depend on consensus to function, their security actually derives from the total number of *independent participants* involved consensus, and how voting power/participation power is divided between them.

In proof-of-stake networks, voting power derives from stake, rather than nodes. However, large stakers often stake via lots of nodes, sometimes to create the impression of decentralization, sometimes to partition access to their keys, and other times because their networks limit how much stake can be attached to a single node.

But here's the rub: if someone controls enough stake to control the network, it doesn't matter how many nodes they have spread their stake across.

Today, many networks have large numbers of nodes, but are in fact can be controlled by one entity, or a group of closely related entities.

This creates the following problems:
— They might make an honest mistake upgrading or configuring the network, and cause a disaster by accident;
— a hacker might commandeer their control to do something terrible;
— they might go bankrupt, and switch their nodes off, potentially causing loss of hosted data, and worse;
— they might subtly manipulate computations and data, to extact value from users somehow, sometimes without anyone being able to detect what is happening and;
— may other things

2. When someone says "the network is very secure and decentralized because it has lots of nodes..."

We know that across the "monolithic" proof-of-stake networks Justin is currently invested into, validator companies often operate tens of thousands of nodes using stake lent to them by customers in return for a share of the staking rewards.

In plain sight, this provides a demonstration of how the number of nodes in a network doesn't equal the number of independent consensus participants. However, hidden centralization is more of a problem.

For example, some time ago, the Crypto Leaks website shared video of a senior Ava Labs technical administrator claiming that in fact the company, and its founder and CEO, Emin Gün Sirer, own a huge portion of the AVAX supply that controls the Avalanche blockchain, and in fact, secretly operate the majority of its nodes, which they use to stake their holdings to both earn the lion's share of rewards and maintain hidden control.

They are not alone. Many proof-of-stake blockchains are run by companies and cabals of founders, execs and investors that secretly own a huge portion of the supply, and hide the fact by self-operating large numbers of nodes.

Aside from helping them get rich, this hidden centralization also helps them with two other things:

1) It provides them with hidden de facto control over their networks, which allows them to force through orderly node upgrades and configurations without the difficulty of decentralizing and having to invest effort developing specialized autonomous network governance and orchestration systems, such as the Internet Computer's Network Nervous System (NNS).

2) It inflates the price of their token: because they earn the lion's share of the staking rewards, they can stash them away for later, preventing them hitting the markets, which isn't a problem for them, because they have huge additional holdings they can sell from. By reducing the flow of tokens to the markets they keep the price higher, which i) enables to them to sell their holdings to the public at higher prices, and ii) keeps the market cap of their networks higher, which lends them prestige, which further attracts investors, including institutional investors who don't understand the game they're playing.

The public would be upset if they could see the truth. For this reasons, they often create large numbers of nodes while peddling the nonsense that the nodes are evidence of great decentralization.

3. Node count vs decentralization in open networks

For any decentralized network, whether its a monolithic network, or a subnet within a larger network, like a subnet on the Internet Computer, what matters for security and resilience is how consensus participation rights are divided amongst independent parties.

There are proven laws of mathematics governing how this works. If one party has 1/3 or more of the participation, then they can start exercising various forms of control over the network.

Thus, if participation is distributed equally over nodes, as it is on the Internet Computer (where the specialized hardware involved plays the role of a form of stake), it doesn't matter if a subnet has 1,000,000 nodes, and one party controls 333,334 of them, or 10 nodes, and one party controls 4 of them — each creates a similarly bad situation, since one party has 1/3 and can thus exert hidden control.

To capture this reality, the blockchain industry came up with the concept of the "Nakamoto Coefficient."

This is a number that tracks the number of independent parties that must collude to control a network. In both of the above examples, the Nakamoto coefficient is 1, even though vastly different numbers of nodes are involved, since a single party can exert control.

Again, what matters is the number of independent parties involved in consensus, not the number of nodes. People who claim otherwise are often just trotting out the same old snakeoil.

4. A key problem: the anonymity of node operators and stakers

A key challenge for proof-of-stake networks is that stakers/node operators are usually *anonymous*. This design choice is often sold to the public using old cypherpunk rubrics that anonymity allows networks to resist government control.

Of course, there is some truth in this, esepcially as concerns proof-of-work networks, but the proof-of-stake people making these argument are hardly ever cypherpunks!

The reality is that in practice anonymity has just become a way to fake decentralization, and hide massive unscrupulous profiteering.

(A further technical observation is that anonymity is anyway a weak shield in practice. For example, November 2022, Hetzner, one of Europe's largest clouds, decided to ban Solana nodes, and deleted 40% of the network's nodes overnight. The fact is they were able to easily identify the Solana nodes among the millions of other compute instances through technical means. The government could too.)

5. Moving on from anonymity, and creating powerful incentives for node operators not to be evil

The Internet Computer eschews node operator anonymity. When a prospective node operator wants go gain a "node provider" ID, through which they can join nodes to the network, they have to submit a proposal to the Network Nervous System, which includes identity and background information that allows the community to verify who they are, and what relationships they might have to other operators. Once they receive their node provider ID, this feeds back into how the Network Nervous System combines nodes.

Upon this foundation, the NNS combines nodes to form subnets that it knows are operated by independent parties — which combinations create the required levels of decentralization in a deterministic way, while using the minimum number of nodes for efficiency purposes.

Further, non-anonymous node providers join a system where they have powerful incentives to behave honestly.

Simply put, as the result of their declarations, if node providers act in an evil way, for example colluding to corrupt their subnets, they become legally liable, worldwide, for the results of their nefarious actions. Moreover, if they seriously disrupt the correct functioning of the network, they could additionally face criminal prosection under laws such as the UK's Computer Misuse Act from 1990.

The Internet Computer can slash misbehaving node providers, banishing their expensive hardware from the network, and proof-of-stake networks can similarly slash the stakes of their node operators.

However, slashing is a financial incentive that exists within a hypothesized microeconomic framework. In some scenarios, it's possible that a node operator might extract more value through dishonest actions than they lose when they get slashed.

The introduction of legal penalties for dishonest behavior act as a far more powerful real-world incentive.

The Internet Computer is more secure by design.

6. Scaling and efficiency using deterministic decentralization

The Internet Computer is essentially a network of super advanced subnet blockchains, which run under the control of its Network Nervous System, which runs on its own subnet (which also chains cryptographic keys to the subnets it creates, enabling the result of every call/tx into the network that triggers onchain computation to be transitively signed by the public key of the NNS — yes, Justin is talking nonsense when he says there is no shared security).

Individually, these subnets can host serious amounts of onchain computation and data, and they can even serve web. However, to scale-out horizontally, the network has to create additional subnets on demand.

This is only possible because the Network Nervous System can look at the available pool of nodes, and then draw down just the right combinations of nodes required to create new subnets with the necessary Nakamoto coefficients.

By design, it uses only the minimum number of nodes required to create the necessary Nakamoto coefficient, minimizing the replication of computation and data, driving incredible efficiency.

7. Going beyond node operator independence

Deterministic decentralization makes other considerations too, in addition to combining nodes from independent operators. Here they are:

Data centers — if a subnet's nodes are in the same data center, data center failure would also take the subnet down, so it combines nodes installed in different data centers.

Geographies — a nuclear strike might take out all the data centers in a geographical area, so its combines nodes in data centers that are geographically dispersed around the world.

Jurisdictions — if a jurisdiction such as the EU suddenly banned blockchain (hopefully not!) they might take down all nodes inside the regions they control, so it combines nodes based in different jurisdictions too.

Using this more nuanced understanding of decentralization, deterministic decentralization squeezes incredible security and resilience from the minimum number of nodes. This is something that just isn't possible on proof-of-stake networks with anonymous stakers and node operators.

8. Security and resilience on a cost curve

In practice, deterministic decentralization is also applied within the context of considerations about the most appropriate balance of security and cost.

Today, Ethereum replicates computation and data across hundreds of thousands of nodes. This is one of the reasons why its onchain computation costs are many orders of magnitude greater than on the Internet Computer. Yet, the computer science says that the amount of security and resilience they are gaining by adding more and more nodes exponentially decayed to zero long ago.

The Internet Computer, meanwhile, is focused on providing cloud, which demands efficiency.

In fact, the Internet Computer always aims to combine the minimum number of nodes required to produce the level of security and resilience appropriate for the application, because in reality, cost/benefit curves are often vastly different, and one size doesn't fit all.

Justin complains that shared public subnets used by the Internet Computer to host applications and services only use 13 nodes. In fact, this number of independent parties creates a Nakamoto coefficient of 5, which is much higher than actually exists on most proof-of-stake blockchains behind the scenes. Simply put, it is sufficient for these applications.

The soon to be released cloud engine technology will provide market validation (cloud engines are private subnets created by enterprises that wish to select their own nodes).

My bet is we will mostly see enterprises configure cloud engines with just 4 or 7 nodes, which will provide Nakamoto coefficients of 2 and 3 respectively, which they will see as easily sufficient for their needs. They will only add more nodes if they want to scale out query capacity, or reduce web latency times in different regions.

This works both ways.

For example, the Network Nervous System allocates ~50 nodes to its own subnet, and a similar number to subnets involved in the hosting of threshold cryptography, which allows hosted software to create public keys that the network can sign for on demand (e.g. to custody bitcoin within an application) and securely encrypt data stored on the network (e.g. the vetKeys functionality).

These subnets benefit from a huge Nakamoto coefficient of 17+, as well as the additional considerations that deterministic decentralization makes. If it wanted to, it could combine hundreds of nodes to create a subnet, thanks to the advanced nature of the network technology involved.

The ability of the Internet Computer to dynamically configure subnet nodes in pursuit of the precise amount of decentralization required, when considering all relevant factors, reflects its incredible sophistication, and why it can provide tamperproof unstoppable onchain cloud.

To date, the implementation of deterministic decentralization remains unique to the Internet Computer.

But, like other innovations the network pioneered years ago, which others are only now pursuing, such as reverse gas, chains that covet cloud provision will inevitably also attempt to adopt these methodologies.

Possibly, even those that Justin holds dear.

[BeInCrypto @beincrypto]

Dfinity founder Dominic teases MULTI/DEX coming to internet-computer:native, calling it the most powerful DeFi platform the world has ever seen? 👀

What's he hinting at?

- True multi-chain trading without bridges

- Trading assistant powered by AI, directly on internet-computer:native

- Built using the latest Motoko language framework

Do you think this actually changes DeFi for good?

[AmSpeed⚡️ @devdaryl]

🚨BREAKING🚨

ICP just made @HyperliquidX irrelevant 🤯🤯

MULTI/DEX incoming…

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

Hello MULTI/DEX 🔥 Should DFINITY release the most powerful DeFi application the world has ever seen?

What's cool about it? Here are some factoids, the craziest at the end:
1. It runs on an ICP cloud engine (soon everyone can have one) and is 100% network resident and tamperproof.
2. It is genuinely multi-chain, with no bridging hassles for users (users can deposit straight into their accounts, and withdraw directly, from the native chains of tokens).
3. It is order book based, but also provides a traditional swap interface, which swaps arbitrary assets by routing across the underlying markets.
4. It supports both spot trading, and margin trading that lets traders go long and short with leverage.
5. It has an AMM (Automated Market Maker) that uses Internet Computer outcalls to determine outside prices, then delayed matching against AMM limit orders to prevent arbitrageurs draining liquidity, as can occur with traditional DEXs providing swaps.
6. The AMM maintains a unified liquidity vault, and doesn't need two liquidity pools for every trading pair, providing outstanding capital efficiency and liquidity compared with traditional DeFi systems.
7. Users can earn by depositing into the AMM Vault, and into an insurance pool that protects the vault from margin calls that fail to recover all capital (the insurance pool gets 5% of all liquidations).
8. MULTI/DEX runs on the decentralized Internet Computer network, and is 100% open source — unlike HyperLedger, say, which remains closed source, and has an single-purpose architecture closer to federated CEX hosted on a symmetric cluster of federated servers.
9. If we go ahead, we would propose that MULTI/DEX runs as part of the Internet Computer, in the sense it is controlled and updated by the NNS (The Internet Computer's Network Nervous System, the world's largest and most sophisticated DAO, which directly orchestrates and updates the network) providing unparalleled levels of autonomy, transparency, and security.
10.... and this is the BIG ONE... its backend is built using the latest Motoko language framework (soon to be released) that puts AI *inside* of its software. That means, in another seminal inventive step from DFINITY and Caffeine Labs technology teams, that AI can see, browse and query the realtime data inside the app/dapp's persistent memory and can create and execute ad hoc queries and update logic on-the-fly (subject to permissions). So, while for much of the time traders will be using the traditional UX shown in the pic, increasingly, they will be interacting with the exchange through AI chats that have the "Internet Computer Connector" MCP installed (soon to be released). On the one hand, traders will be able to use chat to ask for simple things, like current spot pricing and market depth, and the likely slippage on a spot market order, and for orders to be submitted, but on the other, for much more demanding things that require the AI to execute ad hoc functionality, such as "Look at my positions and margin pools, and rebalance them to give me more blended market exposure, while also adjusting for risks indicated by social media coverage of forthcoming market events, but wait for my approval of your plan before proceeding."

This is a lot to take in, so I'm aiming to get a new demo video out ASAP that will demonstrate what's possible with this AIware, which will include MULTI/DEX — should be about a week!!

Btw. for those wondering what might be the big picture beyond what I just described with MULTI/DEX: At DFINITY, we are in the process of transforming ourselves into an "agentic organization," where all our existing apps/SaaS is replaced by custom on-demand apps/SaaS running on cloud engines that are created and updated by AI. Of course, these on-demand apps/SaaS are being built using the new technology described that automatically puts AI inside and provides users with fluid functionality via chat. The totality of the apps/SaaS represents an enterprise "World Model," which incorporates as much of the enterprise's data as possible, enabling AI to perform incredibly powerful analyses and actions — when you see this is in action, you can't unsee what you saw, because it's clearly a huge leap beyond the status quo of today's tech, which is exactly what the Internet Computer project is about. This wraps up our new technology stack, created by leaning on unique aspects of "The Network is The Cloud" paradigm, and years of work, and what, together with cloud engines, will finally enable the Internet Computer to strike out into the massive mainstream cloud technology market.

[LEGEND 👑 @legendtrade000]

$ICP MACRO CHART

👨‍💻

[Internet Computer Today @DfinityToday]

$ICP will surpass Ethereum 👀

@dfinity is the future

[Internet Computer Today @DfinityToday]

we're sorry.

[Altcoin Daily @AltcoinDaily]

"I can't go out tonight I'm broke"

Checking: $128
Savings: $0
Crypto: $840,000

[𝙯𝙨𝙥𝙚𝙘 @zspeccc]

$ICP technical analysis - the most obvious generational setup i've ever seen.

we're breaking out of a 4 YEAR descending wedge right now. if you miss this, you'll regret it for years.

current price: $7.64
all-time low: $2.66
all-time high: $700+

the setup is perfect:

3+ years of accumulation at the bottom. massive descending triangle from 2021 ATH with lower highs at $58 → $46 → $37 → $30 → $24 → $16.

we're breaking the multi-year resistance trendline as we speak. this invalidates the entire bearish structure. once this breaks, there's nothing stopping the move.

fibonacci levels are your roadmap:

• $16 (0.236 fib) - we're going here first, guaranteed
• $24 (0.382 fib) - psychological resistance breaks here
• $31 (0.5 fib) - this is when fomo kicks in
• $38 (0.618 golden ratio) - normies realize what's happening
• $46 (0.786 fib) - 2021 bagholders start believing again
• $59 (1.0 fib) - full retracement territory

measured move target from the pattern: $62-63.

this aligns perfectly with fib levels. the pattern is telegraphing exactly where we're going.

when this breaks out properly:

• $16 is a 100% gain - this happens fast
• $24 is a 215% gain - resistance becomes support
• $38 is a 400% gain - this is where it gets violent
• $59-93 is a 670-1,120% gain - this is where life changes

and if we go full send beyond ath recovery:

• 1.618 extension: $150 (20x from here)
• 2.618 extension: $245 (32x from here)
• 4.236 extension: $400 (52x from here)

why this is the most obvious trade of 2025:

the longer the base, the bigger the explosion. we spent 3+ years at the bottom while dominic built a world computer.

volume is spiking. institutional money is flowing in. smart money accumulated at $3-7 while everyone said ICP was dead.

we're breaking a 3+ year downtrend with conviction. this doesn't happen often. when it does, you don't fade it.

multiple fibonacci levels create price magnets. each level will act as a stepping stone to the next.

macro is perfect. if BTC runs, fundamentally strong alts with real tech go parabolic.

the pattern doesn't lie:

descending wedges break up 80%+ of the time. this one has been forming for 3+ years. the spring is coiled.

every single technical indicator is screaming buy. volume, momentum, pattern breakout, fib levels - everything aligns.

what happens next:

we close above $8-10 on the weekly - breakout confirmed.

quick move to $16 as shorts get liquidated.

consolidation at $16, then straight to $24-30.

fomo kicks in around $30. retail realizes they're late.

$50-93 becomes the new range

but here's the thing - YOU NEED TO DIAMOND HAND, most won't hold that long.

this is a 10x-50x setup minimum over. the technical setup combined with fundamentals (https://t.co/iiqUaUSZsh, chain fusion, institutional partnerships) makes this the highest conviction play in crypto.

risk?

sure, we could retest $5-6 if this fails. but look at the volume. look at the accumulation. look at what's being built.

the risk/reward is so skewed to the upside it's not even close.

you're either early to a generational reversal or you're going to watch from the sidelines as icp does 20x-50x while you're still holding $SOL and $SUI dog coins.

we're at the launchpad. engines are firing. first stop $16. destination $59-93. extensions to $150-400.

this is the trade. don't fumble it.

~ spec

[gamblr @TopG1795173]

@MemeOnIcp Damn, stop it. You're teasing us

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

https://t.co/c91gCXdahA builders grow in number every day

They 1) aren't using Caffeine to speculate on tokens, 2) don't care their secure apps run on a blockchain/just want to create great apps

Crazy: the Internet Computer (ICP) just delivered Web3 its 1st true breakout🚀

[geekchains | ∞ @Geekchains]

Casually listening to the WORLD's FIRST DECENTRALIZED RADIO in my car. $ICP

Built by prompting @caffeineai

I'm speechless this runs on Internet Computer... 🤯😵‍💫

ICP is so powerful...

[Felipe.icp ∞ @iPhelipeVR]

The market doesn’t punish #ICP for failing.

It punishes it for being misunderstood.

Every technological revolution is born in the shadow of incomprehension.

Gold always looks like stone — until someone heats it.

While speculators think ICP is “just another blockchain,”
those who understand its design know it doesn’t compete with Ethereum —
it competes with Amazon, Google, and Microsoft.

That difference in understanding is the most brutal asymmetry of our era:
some trade a token; others invest in the architecture of the new Internet.

For the first time, the world is beginning to understand the problem ICP solved years ago.

The irony is brutal:
when ICP’s price falls, its necessity rises.

This isn’t a crisis of market value.
It’s the fulfillment of the cycle of misunderstanding that precedes awakening.

This fall isn’t a tragedy —
it’s the last opportunity to accumulate before the asymmetry disappears.

Because once the world wakes up — once people realize that ICP depends on neither AWS nor anyone else —
that informational advantage will be gone.

And that moment is near,
because the system itself is breaking.

What looks “alternative” today
will soon be the only thing that works.

And when that happens,
the flow of value will invert —
comprehension will replace speculation.

ICP was never a promise of speculative profit.
It was — and is — a thesis of technological sovereignty.

Now that corporations fail
and “decentralized” systems depend on Amazon,
ICP becomes the only coherent path forward.

What’s collapsing is not the price,
but the false narrative that Web3 could survive
on rented servers.

The world has just learned, through collapse,
that true decentralization cannot rent servers.

ICP isn’t rising because its price goes up.
It’s rising because the story of the Web itself is falling apart.

95% of what calls itself “decentralized”
still lives locked inside the racks of three companies:
Amazon, Microsoft, and Google.

The AWS crisis is not a blow to crypto.
It’s ICP’s opportunity to reveal its true nature —
not as “another blockchain,”
but as the sovereign layer of the new Internet.

While the rest of the ecosystem asks,
“Is there no alternative to AWS?”
we already have the answer:

Yes — it’s called the Internet Computer.
The Sovereign Internet doesn’t crash.

The future won’t be decentralized out of fashion —
it will be decentralized out of necessity. ♾️

This cycle is not economic; it’s cultural.
Humanity first ignores, then mocks,
and finally adopts the inevitable.

The AWS outage was the mockery that revealed the irony.
And now comes the awakening.

“Billions haven’t discovered ICP —
because they were never meant to,
until the Internet itself collapsed under its own illusion.”

The Sovereign Internet doesn’t crash.
The price can — but the mission doesn’t. ♾️

#InternetComputer #ICP #AWS #Decentralization #SovereignInternet

[Kyren @noBScrypto]

When AWS goes down... So does much of the world of tech.

• Apple Music
• Fortnite
• Signal
• Snapchat
• Venmo
• Coinbase
• Robinhood
• Slack
• Zoom

But you know what DIDN'T feel it?

The $ICP ecosystem✅

No AWS. No Middlemen. EVERYTHING hosted on-chain.

[Heidi @blockchainchick]

AWS going down is showing which projects are actually decentralized 😆

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

Except the Internet Comuter, ICP...
Runs on sovereign hardware.

[그릿 @GRIT_Crypto]

Because @dfinity 's internet computers $ICP accommodate and execute challenges that no other project can challenge, the industry seems to believe @dfinity has no chance of success.

There is a prejudice that his vision is impossible.
But I have a question. I want to ask people in the industry.
Have you tried something new?🤔

Internet computers are on a lonely path. They are moving forward, trying things that everyone hasn't tried, and solving problems they can't solve.

Products like @caffeineai will gradually spread like viruses, and I think developers will be interested, too. Chain fusion is fully proven to be safe. It just hasn't been adopted yet.

I want everyone to know how big the vision of the Internet computer is.

@caffeineai
@dfinity

👇👇👇
https://t.co/iSq97jKz3j

[caffeine @caffeineai]

➡️ Sunday Funday ⬅️

How would you improve this build?

🔒 Rules: Maximum 5 prompts

💬 Prompt: "I am a graphic designer, help me build a beautiful portfolio website, with a contact form."

✏️ Notes: Managed to one shot it.

👉 https://t.co/TQfZFnk7HA

Submit your build as a reply below and tag it #builtwithcaffeine

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

A cyberattack has taken out Jaguar Land Rover's production lines, sales & supply lines — it's only alive thanks to a £1.5 billion government loan

ICP enables responsible AI to create self-writing production apps from tamperproof onchain software

https://t.co/6T5w5Aowd4

[dom | icp @dominic_w]

Exact