Webb Mealy

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 Aren't at least some people are punished in Hades? And don't you think of the LOF like a super-Hades, a state of imprisonment with ongoing conscious punishment? I can't think of a reason why people couldn't pay their tab for sins in mortal life in Hades if the tab were finite.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 I'm not surprised. The point is that on a premil model, the criticism that everyone getting the same punishment, which is unjust, ceases to be an issue. In Hades, a 13-year-old who never even broke anybody's bone and a torturer from Belsen can have entirely different punishments.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 //The cross is substitutionary penalty, not annihilation.//

To the extent that it is substitutionary punishment, in Paul's analysis this is to put paid to the Law's demands (Rom. 3:19-28; 10:3-4; Gal. 2:15-3:14; Col. 2:13-15 etc.). The Law never demands anything beyond death.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 I didn't say it undermined it--I said it wasn't pertinent to the argument you were making. God is not less holy if he brings people to judgment, makes them accountable, and removes them irrevocably from his creation. As you said, the key is interpreting the final fate passages.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 4/ "Those are the texts that must be accounted for."

I agree. All this talk about holiness proves nothing about ECT. On the Revelation passages, I recommend my presentation:

https://t.co/M82Du0vLpk

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 2/ Are you not from everlasting,
O LORD my God, my Holy One?
We shall not die.
O LORD, you have ordained them as a judgment,
and you, O Rock, have established them for reproof. (Hab. 1:12)

Part of God's holiness is his mercy--he does not punish out of aggravation (Hos. 11:9).

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 1/ Isaiah feels deeply in the wrong because he is in the presence of God's purity. You are trying to argue for ECT, remember? Nothing here to hang that on. It doesn't even say that Isaiah fears being slain, but that may well be his fear--that God's holiness will evaporate him.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 None of your proof texts is pertinent. I don't deny that God is just and has wrath towards unrepentant sin. Holiness is about purity, as Isa. 6 illustrates. Ultimately all creation will be purified--removing everything and everyone impure. Tormenting people forever is not pure.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 @Metalsandman999 Lev. 17:11 says life covers for life, not death for death.

Yet again, none of this gets to "Jesus suffered an infinity of divine wrath, and that is what atoned." And 2 Cor. 5:21 is not about "sin-bearing" but about being a sin offering. On this, see https://t.co/jDBbsEhHa9

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 @Metalsandman999 All of this is debatable, but you can see it gets you not one inch towards infinite wrath being suffered by Jesus.

On curse language in Gal. 3:13, see https://t.co/yggXtYp8FD

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 @Metalsandman999 On Gal. 3:13, that doesn't prove Jesus experienced God's wrath (which no NT author says; rather, he was pleasing to God, Eph. 5:2; Heb. 5:7-10). He obeyed in our place, and he experienced the Law's worst curses in our place--at the hands of humans, not God. That was sufficient.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 “Holy” and “wrath,” referring to God, occur only once in the same verse in the ESV:

I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath. (Hos. 11:9 ESV)

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@NateTaylor83 @Metalsandman999 Your doctrine of Christ's atonement comes from Calvin, but it directly contradicts the apostle Paul (Rom. 5:6, 8). Calvin theologizes based on ECT, not Scripture. It is appalling that he says Jesus' real atonement happened before he died.

[Webb Mealy @WebbMealy]

@drjohnmeade @DrTomSchreiner Thanks for the bump!
https://t.co/o8lJB3VPpz