Adam

[Adam @ado5433]

@dirojolu @MarkHiggie1 Without floating bus stops, it’s impossible to build protected cycle paths, especially 2-way paths like this one.

[Adam @ado5433]

@NovaxForcazi @chairmanMAO_92 @MarkHiggie1 Yes it is. It’s on one of the cycleways in London. No zig zags or beacons needed for crossings over a cycle track.

[Adam @ado5433]

@JasperJanssen @icyjett @Cycling_In_LDN That's the norm in most countries, but it is not allowed in the UK. A pedestrian signal can only show green when all conflicting traffic has a red light.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray My point is about careful interpretation of statistics, and not cherry-picking poorly-interpreted stats to support our feelings or agenda.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray But my point is not that Dutch cycling priority roundabouts are the safest option, in fact we know they are not, but I don’t think they are worse than the typical 2-lane British roundabout. The safest option is the Dutch car priority design used in rural areas.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray But I’m saying the Dutch do actually have a very good cycling safety record (much better than us) if you break down the stats rather than just looking at the overall numbers. We can also learn from other countries, but they have been less successful at encouraging cycling.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray What rules? Some traffic rules are different in Sweden to here. No one is saying roundabouts are the key to cycling safety, but finding a design that is both safe and efficient for cycling is the goal. Roundabouts are just one of many tools.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray However, rural infra often easier to build politically because you generally don’t need to take away space from cars. But building infra where it’s easy, not where it would have the most impact, is a lazy and ineffective approach.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray I would be happy to have lots of infra in rural areas, but it is more expensive relative to the number of cyclists that are likely to use it because there are much fewer people nearby and people are less likely to cycle the longer distances required.

[Adam @ado5433]

@Kategokatego @James69382185 @adamtranter I think the idea of legalising these paint-only crossings is that lots of them could be installed quickly. Raised crossings are expensive and don’t give pedestrians priority unless designed as a proper “continuous footway”, which are only appropriate at quiet side roads.

[Adam @ado5433]

@Kategokatego @James69382185 @adamtranter Both are assumptions, that’s why I made the counterpoint. I’m not sure how you would study this because we’re dealing with human psychology. But my point is very few drivers currently give way at junctions, so the risk of it getting even worse is almost zero!

[Adam @ado5433]

@James69382185 @adamtranter While that’s possible, if these become common, then drivers will get used to giving way to pedestrians at junctions - they will begin to expect it and form a habit, and they might give way more often at unmarked junctions.

[Adam @ado5433]

@James69382185 @adamtranter Most drivers already think pedestrians don’t have the priority there, it can’t really get any worse!

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray from drivers. Instead we just do a bit of education and suddenly sharing the road with high-speed traffic will be safe.

Yeah… no. Given you know almost nothing about cycling in Sweden, you cannot possibly say it’s all down to education.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray Aaah, now I get where you’re going with all this. You don’t like cycling infrastructure for whatever reason, so you would like to believe that the infra makes little difference, it’s all about education, so we don’t need to spend a penny on cycle paths or take an inch away…

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray I don’t have a problem with the data, and splitting up the non-leisure is fine, but not if you’re then going to use that arbitrary split to attempt to say it’s mostly leisure cycling, so we should totally ignore the Dutch approach. That’s a nonsense interpretation of the stats.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray I don’t understand your point. Where have you shown that British roundabouts are safer than Dutch ones?

Whether there are more or fewer accidents in total on British roundabouts is practically irrelevant. That’s not a useful statistic.

[Adam @ado5433]

@roozie52 @JoTrellis @PRAVDA_KECHB @DavidHo32455623 @HarryHamishGray Why only commuting? Leisure vs non-leisure looks about 50/50.