@ryanvisconti@AndyStanley Ryan, you willfully misrepresent and misunderstand Andy. I received an email from him this year where he stated, "We are not and have never been an affirming church. Our friends in the LGBTQ+ community know this." He doesn't need me to defend him. But you are plainly wrong.
@masonmennenga "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins..." And it seems foolish to me to pit "Jesus" (from a gospel account written by an early church leader) against a letter from another early church leader.
@KevinStigile @EricGeiger I guess I agree, but the trajectory is based on Scripture. In my view, without a trajectory hermeneutic it is difficult to say that the practice of slavery itself is wrong, but merely that masters should be good and kind to their slaves.
@EricGeiger I ask because I believe I have a high view of Scripture and believe it authoritatively and completely sets a trajectory to eliminate the practice of slavery in all its forms, though no passage explicitly does this.
@EricGeiger Why do you assume someone using a trajectory hermeneutic is tantamount to someone who doesn't "hold tightly to the Word being complete and abhor the view that Scripture is not finished or authoritative"?
@newvangelicals It's probably not worth engaging, but this is ideology at work. Each of these is a caricature of a more nuanced position. I'm not saying no one believes either (or both) of these points, but they are more simplistic, minority positions.
@YoloSwag7878 @GinnaCross It is fair to say that there are similarities and that every affirming church is also egalitarian. But not all egalitarian church's have their stance for the same reasons. See Webb's "Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals" to see how context matters and yet these issues are distinct.
@GinnaCross I honestly would never. My point is that sharing a single verse without context as a mic drop is inconsistent and an irresponsible use of God's Word.
If you cover your head when you pray then I recant. However I do not believe that's the faithful application of that text.
@Theophilus_TP@CaptScrub@scotmcknight Sure. Most people that committed (which was a fraction of the people that considered themselves part of our church community) eventually stopped showing up. One house group (out of around 20) formed very deep bonds and still meets today.
@CaptScrub@scotmcknight I saw it as a trial run to try to be a church without buildings and big services, a bit more like churches in truly persecuted places. We tried to worship in homes, it mostly failed. It showed that if other American churches are like ours, we are very dependent on our model. 2/2
@CaptScrub@scotmcknight I will only speak for myself and decisions our church made: it took much more moral courage to try to follow health guidelines. We never had the govt force us to do anything, but many Christians were very angry with us/me. 1/2
@YourCalvinist You're misrepresenting him. The point is that saying "the Bible says" to someone that does not believe in the Bible is disregarded. We can maintain our belief while also acknowledging where nonbelievers are coming from.
@philvischer Ok this was really helpful. But as excellent as this thread was, what's most noteworthy is your apt use of the word 'pugilistic' (which I had to look up).
@TerriGreenUSA Many young people go to college, reject something like Jonah being swallowed by a fish, and then walk away from their faith entirely. His point is to make sure the foundation is Jesus as they question things like Jonah.
@TomBuck@drmoore "...a man who hides his true beliefs when it would be costly for him to be forthright, is a man who shouldn’t be trusted..." He spoke openly against the moral failures of President Trump, which in my estimation was very costly to him. It's not as simple as you're making it.