Jake

[Jake @betwithjake]

@lovestheraces @gkxlsi @AKBets w/d over 2k shouldn't = instant AML check

[Jake @betwithjake]

@chrisgambler247 Affordability check = docs
Financial risk assessment = credit check

Think that’s right anyway

[Jake @betwithjake]

@BensBetsOnX "If you hit any of these triggers, you can expect detailed requests from bookmarkers requesting all kinds of documents"

This isn't correct though. At these limits it will trigger a credit check to see if you have a debt management plan, are in arrears etc.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@jhorsewhisperer It's only credit checks anyway, could have been a lot worse with mandatory document checks over the same thresholds.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@chrisgambler247 If someone deposits over £1000 in 24 hours or £3000 in 90 days, this will trigger a credit reference check. From how it reads, it doesn't mean you will be asked for documents or that they have to take any further action if the credit check doesn't report back anything of concern?

[Jake @betwithjake]

@bazapeps Not sure it changes things much. Pretty sure they were already doing these credit checks as a pilot at the big books.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@SenseiChanning Haha I skimmed the tweet and completely missed it was about politics 😅

[Jake @betwithjake]

@betangel Does this actually change anything? Has anyone actually read it? It reads as if it's just a credit check to see if you have any defaults, debt plans etc.

Nothing about actual document checks for these thresholds.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@chrisgambler247 From the statement, aren’t they just introducing credit reference checks and not document checks?

[Jake @betwithjake]

@LucrativeJames Could have got 1.9 on the exchange?

[Jake @betwithjake]

@RooneyMal Small bit matched 1.02 😅

[Luke Paton @Golfpunter1]

Frictionless checks. The buzzword of recent weeks. It has been clear for many years that the levels of incompetence within those deciding the fate of the gambling industry, knows no bounds. They simply aren't fit for purpose and will not stop until this industry is finished.

Tomorrow will be a sad day for me as I think it will be the start of wrapping up the bigger betting stuff I put through Betfair. I was fortunate enough to have what was known as a Master Account. What it enabled me to do was put different sports and different strategies through different accounts. Also an account for pre off betting or in running. It meant you had the flexibility to separate things more sensibly. It also meant you could park some funds elsewhere within the account without risking it all especially if using automated strategies.

At various times in the last 15 years up to about 95% of what I was doing was going through Betfair. It depended on what I was doing. Other times it was a fair bit lower. That number has been falling significantly in recent years for a variety of reasons. Mainly liquidity. What is without question though is that Betfair is only headed in one direction and it's not positive.

The Master Account and all the various sub accounts will be going tomorrow I believe. The hope is it will just be replaced by a standard account although I have little faith it will go smoothly.

The reason it is going is that I have just had enough. I have always bent over backwards to accommodate all the stupid, ridiculous requests. All the bank statements, other proof of wealth statements etc etc. The justification for why a Master Account was needed. Every single year.

It really started in February this year when I got a phone call from an account manager. He was like I see the account is down in January. Yes I said. January was the worst month I have had in over seven years. It happens. I was told well if this carries on then I am not sure you can keep having a Master account. Err really. Ok. I said I will make a couple of tweaks with how I do things if it is quite so important to you. i.e taking on maybe slightly less risk.

I was asked to talk about what trading strategies I was using. Whether I bet full time. Other incomes? What other proof of betting winnings I had etc. Some pretty personal questions but I didn't want any issues so i provided what was necessary. To say it was a massive overreach would be an understatement. We would review in a years time.

We had a brief chat about liquidity and how it had a fallen off a cliff in certain sports. Cricket has never been better I was told. Well I don't bet much on cricket so that's helpful. Is Betfair doing anything to address the falling liquidity? Nope. One worry with falling liquidity is rapidly diminishing returns. Less volume matched and lower margins is an ugly combination.

February/March both winning months. April a losing month. Just the way these things are in this game. Particularly when using different platforms. I get an abrupt email from Betfair in May saying that compliance wanted five different things including bank statements, another MSA declaration form, further commentary around my BF activity (i.e strategies), reasoning for my variance and proof of other betting outlets being profitable. If I didn't provide these things within two weeks the account would be suspended.

My focus has been shifting away from Betfair anyway and I think this was the final push. I simply said bollocks to this. Enough is enough. I spoke to my account manager and the first question I asked was why is this happening now given we spoke about it three months ago and you said we would review at a later date. He said I am sure I spoke to you last year about it. Err nope. Just incompetence that gets your back up from the get go. Anyway I said enough is enough. Unless you are willing to accept the P/L on the account as a source of funds then we are done.

We then had a brief conversation about what is asked from Betfair by the regulators. He said yes we probably overreach but we just want to protect ourselves. That there in a nutshell is why this industry is absolutely screwed. No one knows what is needed and the shifting of blame has to be seen to be believed. The guidance from all concerned pathetic.

The account itself is up seven figures after commission. The account has also paid the best part of £1m in commission to Betfair. The accounts will have placed well over £100m of bets through Betfair. The January loss was for less than 1% of the P/L on the account. Yes that's right. Less than 1%. They won't accept an account P/L as a source of proof of funds/wealth.

The worry for Betfair is that there will be so many other stories like mine out there. Every time Betfair loses people pumping in seven figures+ a year, the liquidity just keeps falling. More people keep leaving and the situation is ultimately terminal. I hope to still use the normal Betfair account but I will be making a conscious effort not to put my business their way.

It has felt like this has been coming for some time and that is why you have to constantly adapt if you want to stay in this game.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB Yeah tbf most operators aren't doing this for AML, and thats why I know this particular bookmaker are being completely unreasonable.

Sadly not much I can do, as I understand the GC has essentially said they cannot accept gambling winnings as the source.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB Affordability checks are of little relevance if I am asked to produce the same documents if I want to withdraw 1k after already verifying my account with standard KYC and proving the card is in my name.

So lets stop wasting our time discussing affordability.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB Basically they can set their policies as low as they want because there is no guidance. They can accept deposit and then request documents on any withdrawal.

I am sure not a single bookmaker in the UK has/will abuse that.

It's basically impossible to claim it is ever unfair.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB So we're all sat here moaning about affordability checks when you have to send the exact same documents in for £200 per month under the guise of AML anyway. Complete and utter farce.

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB Not £10, but I used that as an example as I had heard of that exact case from the same operator I'm having issues with.

I have done all of the above but deposited 2x£200 over 2 months. Lost 1st deposit, won just over 1k on 2nd deposit and now asked for full bank statements to wd

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB Ok but what about if they make these requests and you believe they are unreasonable.

e.g. Sign up, £10 deposit, win £30. Withdraw.

Please now send us 3 months bank statements and payslips.

Can they just claim this is their process because there are no proper guidelines?

[Jake @betwithjake]

@VaughanLewis1 @mindmodeller @GamRegGB What do you mean ‘it’s literally a legal obligation to check documents in that case’

In what case?

Ok so if I think I have had an unreasonable request to send my unredacted bank statements in, I can report this to IBAS and the GC?