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Jesus Christ is my Master, Messiah, and Mentor. We all serve something transcendent, the question is what or who. Genuine unity is experienced, not achieved.

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Civilization measures its progress by how well it can avoid reality.

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@TLArrington @DrScotMSullivan You forgot to add "finality".

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@StanfieldBrent1 @Just_Vagabond @wichman_matthew So, just to clarify before moving on to the rest, God changing the heart of Saul so he becomes a different man is not changing the inner being of Saul?

And this is because Saul later fell away and lost the Holy Spirit, so whatever God did to Saul was only temporary?

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@TLArrington @DrScotMSullivan I don't have to justify Origen's supposedly Neoplatonic assumptions to point out that Augustine isn't by default biblical because of what you think the text implies.

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@OzarCaneSaw @Valent_FJ @ThugLifeJMac Semantic posturing and ad hominem, the letter and not the heart.

The historical evidence is still against the iconophiles, yet they have still declared anathema those who do not comply with their practices, even in your translation.

Denying facts to preserve "infallibility"?

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Mary, Joseph, and Jesus also left Egypt after some time.

[Mason Mennenga @masonmennenga]

if you hate people seeking asylum then you’re going to hate mary, joseph, and jesus

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@StanfieldBrent1 @Just_Vagabond @wichman_matthew You speculate a difference between whether the change is internal to nature or for equipping for purpose.

Where does the Bible ever delineate that distinction? Because changing the nature is exactly what God did to Saul, who had the Spirit "come upon" him.

New heart and all.

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@StanfieldBrent1 @Just_Vagabond @wichman_matthew Who did David write Psalm 22 about?

Did David write it about himself?

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@TheMuppetPastor An easy answer, but with a ton of controversy if you follow the right rabbit trails... 😅

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@StanfieldBrent1 @Just_Vagabond @wichman_matthew Apart from a text explaining such, that is all speculation. Faith is evidenced in what we do, as James so controversially put it, even under the new covenant.

That is why David was so concerned about what happened to Saul.

Who do you understand Psalm 22 to be talking about?

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@TLArrington @DrScotMSullivan Augustine admitted in his "Confessions" that he only converted to Christianity after learning that he didn't have to take the text literally, and your assertion at the beginning of this thread that Augustine was biblical?

I think your warnings to me are greatly misplaced.

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@StanfieldBrent1 @Just_Vagabond @wichman_matthew Now the "fun" part.

If being filled with the Holy Spirit is "giving faith", why did Saul (referenced above) who was filled with the Holy Spirit not have faith in God and the Holy Spirit eventually left him?

Because that would mean I cannot continue granting 2 of your examples.

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@OzarCaneSaw @Valent_FJ @ThugLifeJMac What revisions and edits did Kevin Knight make to adapt Henry Percival's work from over a century ago for New Advent?

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@OzarCaneSaw @Valent_FJ @ThugLifeJMac If "salute" for you is more accurately reflecting the practice of prayer "through" and veneration of icons for you than "worship" from these century old texts translating into English, that is a rather different accusation than of the outright misrepresentation of Orthodoxy.

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@OzarCaneSaw @Valent_FJ @ThugLifeJMac Who is Kevin Knight? 🤪

Can we stop playing silly games that distract from how both the Eastern and Western Orthodox declared "anathema" all those who did not partake in, or spoke against, the practices associated with icon veneration?

Or how "anathema" has changed since then?

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@PhilGarber5 Why is rejection of PSA a "spiritual tell" if you only have concerns when people argue against atonement "in principle"?

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There are no passages in the Bible which give Christians "spiritual tells", explaining that people will reject specific teachings that hadn't been invented as of the formalization of the canon, specifically because they have not been convicted of sin.

Anecdotes aren't data.

[Zionspilger @PhilGarber5]

@MikeWingerii I agree.

Dislike of PSA is a spiritual tell to me that that person has never been convicted of sin. If you are a murderer and *know* you deserve hell then Christ’s atonement becomes your lifeline. It is those who don’t feel deep guilt who are most offended by the doctrine.

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@TLArrington @DrScotMSullivan All it takes to remove implications is to stop coming to the text with the same presuppositions and axioms.

Because implications are, by definition, not the text itself.

Especially when things like brimstone had a purpose outside of just being referenced in the Bible.

[John @JohnChChNZ]

@Fletch1171 I've finally realized what Calvinism is about, it’s about defending Calvinism not the Bible
You have to follow their thought process to understand what they believe
If you just read the Bible you never will
It's like going down the rabbit hole, theology in a tube
You can't argue

[Dr. Scott M. Sullivan @DrScotMSullivan]

Augustinian Vs Origenian Eschatology:

Augustine
1. God’s justice is not knowable
2. God’s punishments are retributive
3. God will divide the world forever in the end

Origen
1. God’s justice is knowable (through Christ the Logos)
2. God’s punishments are remedial
3. God will unite the world forever in the end (God will be “all in all” since “love never fails”)

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@TLArrington @DrScotMSullivan The "East" doesn't have to say "clear implication of scriptural teaching" in a way that takes away all the authority of your position, given reliance on sola scriptura.

Taking metaphors and apocalyptic imagery literally undermines any assertion about handling the text properly.