Epistemic Trespasser3

Third time is a charm account

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@ingelramdecoucy @kil

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@mahmoudkhalel @Columbia Every second that you are in the united states is a disgrace

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

i honestly want these people all committed to gulags or asylums

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@naeriface i do "behaviour" all the time for some reason

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@Rugby0574864371 yeah so what? roughly 40 percent are approved. the others need to get their shit together and try again if they want citizenship.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

pro pally people on this hellsite will argue that people should not be allowed to defend their property with deadly force when they riot over palestine and then literally justify massacring entire jewish families in the "west bank" because they dont understand oslo.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

i dont think you have any clue what you are talking about so I will just ask 1 salient question and not argue: why do you think the israelis had to forcibly remove jews from the gaza strip? they ethnically cleansed 10,000 jews from the gaza. it was one of the first cases of a state ethnically cleansing its own people from a place. why do you suppose that had to occur? why could not have the israeli army just left them there and allowed them to be absorbed into a future palestinian state? the land they were on was bought, not stolen, and compenstation had been paid. so tell me. why?

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@grok is it fair to say that this was likely worse in terms of human lives and cost than anything that happened in mandatory palestine and considering the defensive nature of the war agains a un recognized state of israel the creation of the state of israel was largely one of the least violent post war national emergences

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

here is your full answer @JosephJakeKlein

In short: the scale of forced displacement is real and historically well-documented. The political driver was primarily the Muslim League’s sustained demand for a separate Muslim homeland (not a pre-existing “Pakistani government” ordering it “to maintain peace”). Partition was a high-cost political compromise that failed to prevent—and in practice triggered—widespread violence.Yes, the 1947 Partition of British India displaced roughly 12–20 million people (commonly estimated around 14–15 million) in one of the largest forced migrations in modern history, with estimates of 200,000 to 2 million deaths from communal violence.en.wikipedia.orgThe core political demand for the split came from the All-India Muslim League under Muhammad Ali Jinnah. The League’s 1940 Lahore Resolution called for independent states in the Muslim-majority areas of northwest and northeast India, grounded in the two-nation theory that Hindus and Muslims were distinct nations. After the League’s strong showing in the 1946 elections, it pressed this demand, including via the 1946 “Direct Action” call that helped escalate violence (notably the Calcutta Killings). Congress leaders largely opposed partition but ultimately accepted it (with British mediation under Mountbatten) to break the deadlock and secure independence amid rising communal tensions. Gandhi remained opposed.britannica.comPakistan did not yet exist as a government when the demand was made; the Dominion of Pakistan was created by the partition itself. The British and others framed separation as a practical way to manage communal conflict and enable a quicker British exit, but the rushed borders (Radcliffe Line, announced after independence) and breakdown of order produced the opposite of peace: massive riots, massacres, abductions, and flight in both directions. Hindus and Sikhs largely left West Punjab, Sindh, and other areas that became Pakistan; Muslims left East Punjab and other parts of India.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@grok @JosephJakeKlein @jackstraw250 @grok during this time did either state threaten to wipe out the other state as happened in 1948 in mandatory palestine?

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@JosephJakeKlein @grok @jackstraw250 @grok what is the current human rights sitution for non muslims in pakistan, specifically hindus,

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@grok @JosephJakeKlein @jackstraw250 @grok is it not true that many of these people, millions, were forcibly displaced against their will because the muslim pakistani govt demanded the split to maintain peace

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@JosephJakeKlein @colwight do you know how many jews were ethnically cleansed from the west bank in 48 and how many arabs were actually forcibly, not fled, cleansed from what became israel?

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

the ethnic cleansing of germans from vast swaths of europe after ww2 was morally acceptable and probably the only reason we have peace on the continent to this day. it was ethnic dispersion within national boundaries that caused almost every war of the 20th century.

[Joseph (Jake) Klein @JosephJakeKlein]

I don’t accept the framing that the Arabs were the aggressors in 48. I think partition — or at least the form of partition being proposed — was unfair, and this was a defensive act (albeit a failed and counterproductive one given the way history turned out).

But also, you seem unfamiliar with the laws of war and how governments internationally have agreed displaced civilians are to be treated. Even if America started the war, the international agreement around this is that China would not be entitled to ethnically cleanse civilians and prevent them from returning. This is morally intuitive to the vast, vast majority of people. To do otherwise is ethically wrong and unnecessary to achieve legitimate military aims.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

the idea that partition was unfair is predicated on the notion that before the un vote on partition arabs had any collective right to the entire mandate of palestine. it is like if kosovo was barred from statehood on the grounds that the serbs just de facto have collective rights over it.

[Joseph (Jake) Klein @JosephJakeKlein]

I don’t accept the framing that the Arabs were the aggressors in 48. I think partition — or at least the form of partition being proposed — was unfair, and this was a defensive act (albeit a failed and counterproductive one given the way history turned out).

But also, you seem unfamiliar with the laws of war and how governments internationally have agreed displaced civilians are to be treated. Even if America started the war, the international agreement around this is that China would not be entitled to ethnically cleanse civilians and prevent them from returning. This is morally intuitive to the vast, vast majority of people. To do otherwise is ethically wrong and unnecessary to achieve legitimate military aims.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

the plain and annoying fact of the matter is that it took almost 50 years of arab intransigence and terrorism for israelis to start to give up on a palestinian state. in that time the yfought 3 existential wars, gave back 3 times the land they have now for peace with arab states and did oslo.

[Peter Savodnik @petersavodnik]

Missing some context here.

There was, in fact, a political party in Israel that long embraced the possibility of a Palestinian state. That was the Labor Party. But then the second intifada happened, the Palestinian Authority abandoned any pretense of democracy, and Hamas was elected in Gaza, killed off the opposition — and then, well, attacked Israel on October 7, 2023, murdering more than 1,200.

Had the Palestinians, at any step along the way, accepted the Jewish state, and embraced self-rule, they would, no doubt, be in a very different place today. They might even have a state.

But because Palestinians can’t push past their hatred of Israel, because so many of their “supporters” insist on viewing them as toddlers and encourage that hatred (financially and otherwise), they remain confined to a quasi-permanent liminality. Which is awful for Palestinians but very useful for those who wish to use them as a cudgel with which to bludgeon Israel.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@clivedenset @lionel_trolling hamas literally broke down barriers to kill jews after the left gaza please fuck yourself. thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

@Bleek_Groyper did i give it away?

[Epistemic Trespasser3 @colonialbot3]

groypers are evil retarded and gay but there is a logic to this: create absolute weimer level chaos such that the dialectic spirals to total actual groyper facism. dems are too stupid to understand it and conservatives are not cynical enough to entertain its possibility.

[Bleek @Bleek_Groyper]

Dont get it twisted im not voting dem bc trump is hitler im voting dem because he isnt like hitler ENOUGH

Shouldve kept his promises🤷‍♂️