@Alex_Ortodoxie@MethodMinistry Even if that’s true (it’s not), it is still also true that the only grounds for our justification is the life, death, & resurrection of Jesus Christ.
More evidence that evangelical doctrine starts with eschatology and works its way backwards. This is only a strawman in your view because you don't know who Christ is
Watching the stream with @JPuncut, @Acts17David, & @truthcartel816, and of course the EO guy is making the typical "the saints are alive in heaven" strawman. 🤦♀️
When protestants respond to praying to the saints with, "saints cannot hear you in heaven, they are dead," this is not a denial of them being alive in Christ in heaven. We ALL recognize that Christians are alive in heaven.
I'll say it again: Protestants do not deny that we are alive in the afterlife.
So, to respond to this rebuttal with "bUt GoD iS tHe GoD oF tHe LiViNg, NoT tHe DeAd" is a dishonest framing of the argument. It is a complete strawman. No one is arguing against this.
When we say, "they are dead," we simply are speaking of their status here on earth. They are dead and gone from this earth, which is something that we all understand. Which is why Francis is no longer the pope, or why we have funerals for loved ones, or why we cry when someone dies. Death is real for christians and non-christians alike.
We ALL understand the concept of death and understand that even Christians die from this earth. So please, PLEASE, stop making this strawman argument when defending the intercession of the saints. PLEASE engage with our actual positions and stop pretending that we deny eternal life in heaven.
Superficial rituals have no effect on anybody, including babies. That's exactly why Jesus said you must be born again. The inner-man needs cleansing, not the outer, and that comes through faith in Jesus.
I doubt that the sovereingty now can be reduced to the possession of nuclear power. It is not that simple. The fact of having nuclear power doesn't stop anybody. This weapon either has to prove its validity or to be discard at all. We are in new reality. In the war and elsewhere.
Here's some thoughts from one of the more notable Church Fathers, John Chrysostom:
“Some of our people fast with the Jews and keep their Sabbaths, and some even light lamps with them and take part in their festivals.
I hate these festivals of the Jews. I hate their Sabbaths. I hate their new moons. I hate their sacrifices. God hates them, too. They were once venerable, but now they are contemptible. Once they were holy, but now they are profane.
Do you see how great the difference is? Do you see how far they have fallen? When Christ was not yet come, their rites were acceptable; but now that the truth has come, the shadow is no longer useful. When the sun has risen, who needs the lamp?
If someone admires the Jewish rites, he admires them as still valid. But if they are valid, then Christ has not yet come. And if Christ has not yet come, then He has not yet been crucified. And if He has not been crucified, then our sins have not been taken away.
You see where this leads. Participation in their festivals is a denial of Christ."
- John Chrysostom, "Against the Judaizing Christians," Homily 1 in Antioch, circa 367AD.
There are a number of problems with claiming that the Catholics or Orthodox “gave us our Bible.”
This is one.
Each book was added to the actual canon of Scripture the moment they were written. They were not added later. Later they were more widely recognized but nobody ever made them Scripture. The Holy Spirit made them Scripture as they were written.
Even though there are a variety of lists through Church history of what people thought the canon was, none of those lists successfully add or take away from the actual number of truly inspired books. They are just fallible human attempts to find and number the books already part of God’s canon.
Kruger makes this point well in his work by trying to explain two different definitions of “canon.” One being the actual list of inspired books and the other being man’s attempts to identify that list.