Daniel Lee

Software Engineer specializing in web applications.

Born and Raised in Queens.

Korean-American.

Christian since late 2024, still learning.

A-political.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@OzMarquezz @MethodMinistry Arminians will destroy Provisionists on eternal security

but Provisionists will destroy Arminians on total depravity.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@JacobTheBerean @redeemed_zoomer @grok make a decision who is right between Jacob and redeemed zoomer using the bible.

pick a side.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

Brother, if I truly believed that is what the Bible taught I would believe that.

I grew up in a conservative Presbyterian church that teaches the 5 points of Calvinism.

Reading the Bible, I just cannot justify holding to Reformed theology.

The Bible tells to have a good defense of the faith and the only way to do that is to drop Reformed theology because it is biblically, logically, and morally not defensible.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@intj68 @MethodMinistry @ProvisionistP God loves all and he is heart broken when one of his children rejects him.

He respects our free will and he let's us choose him or choose evil.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@ByGraceAL0NE @MethodMinistry @ProvisionistP Yes, I believe in the warning positions of the Bible of believers falling away.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

With all due respect brother,

I have been going back and forth with you trying to establish what your interpretation of Romans is.

I asked you specific questions about exact portions of the text and I have accurately summarized all your points.

Now you are coming back to me saying all that you said is not what you actually said.

And to be fair, I wouldn't use the word desperate but I do think it is incredibly important to challenge Reformed theology.

Acts 20:28-30
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.

False teachings have attacked the church since the beginning. I reject every point of TULIP not because I hate reformed theology but because I think the Bible is the word of God and I think it explicitly teaches the opposite of TULIP.

Total Depravity is false:
Humans can come to God even with their corrupted nature: Deut 30:1-6, Moses tells Israel that when they fall away they can come back to him by doing his commands and God will give them a new heart to love him truly.

Unconditional Election is false:
Election is corporate and conditional on belief of Christ and we know this because in Romans 12, Paul believes that the Jews can grafted back in.

Limited Atonement is false:
So many verses that God wants all to be saved

Irresistible Grace is false:
We can resist his grace because election is corporate and based on belief and there are various warnings of people falling away from the faith.

Preserverence of the saints is false the same reason why irresistible grace is false.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

Gotcha so let me repeat what we established:

The tree is salvation,

God calls all of us to join the tree of salvation,

You can only truly respond if God regenerates you,

Jews were part of the tree because they were regenerated,

God regenerated the Jews but for some reason did not do the second inward call to save them,

And eventually they were cut off.

So you are admitting that eternal security is false?

Can you also quote me anything that claims that one can be regenerated and still not be saved, this is my first time hearing of this as something that the reformed believe.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar if the call is to all, what causes the regenerated person to not respond to grace? The classic reformed belief is that the call does not fail.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar You have officially spouted non Calvinist ideology,

granted your view you just spouted is technically slightly more biblical than what Calvinists believe.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

I do agree that certain people who not be hanging with other people over doctrine but the real demonic doctrine is not open theism but eternal security / OSAS.

Eternal Security / OSAS denies and warps more of scripture than Open Theism.

Also Potter's Promise is a good book even though I think OSAS is demonic.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

Romans 11:

20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Respectfully if your position is true the above 2 verses make no sense.

What is he sparing us from? The visible community was persecuted. Why should we tremble?

It makes more sense that the olive tree is salvation.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

Wait so in your view one can be cut off but still be saved?

To be clear the vine is Jesus, you have to be part of the vine through faith, being cut off from the vine means destruction. (hopefully you agree here)

You said: "The warning is against corporate arrogance, not loss of eternal election"

If this is true, why does it matter if there is corporate arrogance or not if election/salvation is not at stake here?

(it also seems that you're reading your theology in here because Paul is conflicted this his people (Jews) have been cut off but hopes they can repent and be saved. (Romans 12). The same Jews that were fashioned for destruction in Romans 9, Paul hopes will be grafted back in Romans 12)

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

How would you explain Deut 30:1-6 where Moses guides Israel on how to come back to God after apostasy.

Repentence and obedience comes first in verse 2 and God gives you a new heart to love him in verse 6.

Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

Romans 11:22 — "Consider therefore the goodness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but goodness to you, if you continue in his goodness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off."

how would you then describe this, it already makes the juxtaposition to the reader that they are different from the fallen.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar which type of call is romans 8?

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar what is the outward call and how is it different from the call the father does?

if it is different, where in the Bible are you getting that from?

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar haha no worries, but you are still assuming your theology.

you are assuming the people in corinthians are all elect and the elect cannot fall away.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@Con3cat @needGod_net correct but we most likely have different definitions of faith and work.

[Dinesh D'Souza @DineshDSouza]

The Calvinist premise: God is sovereign over everything, so if it happened, God decreed it.

Let’s test the premise.

Jeremiah 19:5 “They have built pagan shrines to Baal, where they burn their children as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!”

Here God Himself, speaking through the prophet, insists He did not command or decree these evil practices.

It’s time to begin the Calvinist acrobatics: Well, in one sense He didn’t but in another sense He did.

The whole circus performance is necessary because the Calvinist cannot see the difference between God making things happen and allowing them to happen.

The premise must be false.

[Daniel Lee @dannyslee1996]

@templeaves @ChristandGuitar is that a biblical syllogism or is that something you got from your theology.

you are presuming irresistible grace and preserverance of the saints.