I have heard it said, “God didn’t die for frogs. He died for humans, implying we were worth the sacrifice.” This turns grace on its head. We are less deserving than frogs. They have not sinned. They have not rebelled and treated God with the contempt of being inconsequential in their lives. God did not have to die for frogs. They aren’t bad enough. We are. Our debt is so great, only a divine sacrifice could pay it.
Responding to @BishopJaxi :
First, I am under no obligation to respond to everything you post. I am on a 3000+ mile road trip, and I do not look at X, let alone respond, while driving. I speak five out of the next six nights and hence people who have already been refuted repeatedly on X just get to wait.
Secondly, there is no “Protestant world.” This is the key element of the failure of RC apologetics. There is no “Protestant Church.” Your entire argument depends upon comparing apples and oranges. Very few outside of Rome believe, and actually practice, sola scriptura. Hence, to blame doctrinal diversity on SS is childish (though massively common). There is, however, a Roman Catholic world, and you will find just as wide a variety there. The large majority of RC schools are as leftist as any outside. The RC Papal Biblical Commission is inhabited by scholars placed there by the Pope himself and yet they are way off to the left of any kind of believing bibliology. And every time the Pope puts out a new statement, what do we see? All sorts of folks waving around their “official” RC documents, entire books of them, claiming they have the official interpretation of even the newest statement—and contradicting each other. I guess you just closed your eyes to all the stuff about capital punishment, Fiducia Supplicans, or the recent Marian statement. We could throw in last week’s statement on the Nicene Creed, sans the Filioque, just for the fun of it. Your “visible, binding authority” has contradicted itself over and over again, and continues to do so. But you have no way of stopping the process since you have abandoned the normative status of divine revelation found solely in Scripture. So, when the modern Magisterium contradicts the tradition that existed for centuries before, you just go with the flow because, well, you HAVE to. You’ve got nothing else. Sola Ecclesia has no guardrails. It just takes you wherever the current leaders want to go.
And I find it humorous that you just dismiss your OWN use of “Gnostics” in your OP as if it doesn’t matter. It demonstrated the shallowness of your thinking at the start. The famous “32,000 Denominations” argument (which has now grown substantially) suffered from the same foolishness, since it, too, included “gnostics” as a “Protestant denomination.” Again, simply muddled thinking.
Amazing that you confuse “the Bible is clear” with sola scriptura, but then again, possibly not. You might want to take the time to honestly consider what SS actually states, though, Convert Syndrome will probably preclude you from so doing.
If do find it fascinating that you are literally standing there saying Rome has the ability to say “You are outside the Apostolic faith.” OK, if they have that capacity, why don’t they use it? The VAST majority of discipline coming from Rome is political, not theological. Francis gave the Eucharist to Pelosi when her own bishop had banned her from it. Sorry, Rome almost NEVER enforces any kind of doctrinal boundaries these days, though she sure did in the past! Which is why I say again, Rome would have burned Francis in 1600 for teaching and believing the things he did. Makes your claim absurd.
So I am avoiding nothing. All sorts of groups claim to have apostolic authority to define, bind, loose, etc. Rome is not alone in making the claim. Making it is not the same thing as actually possessing such authority, which would require complete fidelity to God-breathed Scripture.
Your religion has developed over centuries of the accumulation of man-made traditions, piled upon one another, until the foundations are no longer even visible. Error compounding error until there is no mechanism of self-correction left. The dogmas propounded by Rome about Mary are so plainly and obviously non-apostolic that they illustrate the state into which Rome has fallen. But once you submit yourself, and your mind, to its ultimate authority, you have no choice but to follow the mantra, no matter how much farther it takes you away from anything that can be truly said to have been taught by the Apostles themselves.
The Jesus of Arminianism today is a helpless Savior-wannabe. He cannot save a single soul unless that soul’s free will allows Him to do the saving. Their Jesus died on the cross hoping that human free will would make His sacrifice take effect.
This is not the Jesus of the Bible, and those who tolerate this—especially those who even use the fruit of the Spirit, like gentleness, to tolerate it—are guilty before God.
They have convinced themselves that relationships should be preserved even at the cost of integrity and truth. They tell themselves, “It’s not really compromising,” but cannot articulate any justification—because there isn’t any. Their only hope and tendency is to appeal to emotion as their minds fail to cover for their position. Then they will attack those who bring them what Scripture says—bearing false witness, conspiring, or maybe openly if they’re “decent.”
They thought it is loving and gentle to just let false teachings be. They even demand that truth be delivered to them in a manner they prefer, but no matter how slowly and gently truth is spoken or written, it will always offend those who are afraid of the light and clarity—doing all they can to remain blurry and vague.
When we are out of our depth, we tend to resort to either rage, childishness, or apathy. It is within our instinct to cling to tantrums, foolishness, and insensitivity when the challenge before us is not within our given capacity. We are desperate beings who hate being mistaken, which is a problem because we don’t grow in the absence of errors. Having said that, you’ll see the beauty of Christianity’s “prerequisite”: self-denial and self-loathing. We have to be removed from ourselves.
We have become so lazy and unrepentant that instead of doing something, we do our best to articulate our excuses, even resorting to using theology and the Bible to justify our comfort-seeking compromises. We intentionally wrongly cling to the false hope that we can right our rottenness by covering it up with “faithful churching.”
God help us.
It’s both fascinating and humbling that after all the years of service, we find ourselves in need of being reminded of the fundamentals like sincerity, teachability, and consistency.
We have lost our respect for God’s truth.
We try our best to be as vague as possible to maintain an illusory peace and then proclaim that we share the same gospel as everyone else. Nothing is more evil than maintaining a lie and saying it’s for the glory of God. What a shame.
This is a real problem in our local churches today. Nobody knows what we believe. We say, “It’s the Bible,” like every other false denomination out there.
The men of God who refused to sell out their integrity are now gone. As a generation, we have become a subtler version of Sodom and Gomorrah. We flirt with fake peace, avoiding conflict because we are simply incapable of resolving it.
We have become so good at lying that we even call our hypocrisy “love,” “kindness,” “humility,” “gentleness.” Imagine that, calling our shortcomings the Fruit of the Spirit. Are we so unafraid of the Holy God that we blaspheme Him and flash a smile?
What kind of Christianity are we cultivating for our children? Are we training the next generation of hypocrites?
God help us.
Yes, it is not orthodoxy that saves—it is God. It is the Spirit alone that sanctifies, yes. But these truths don’t give us freedom to filter Scripture just because we assume that people will be confused and won’t understand.
Maybe we have to admit that we aren’t as equipped as we make it appear that we are, stop the condescending assumption, and actually do the work (of course, without rubbing it on people's faces that you do a lot because you don't). God, help us.